Benz vs. Honda Paint
- Thread starter willbur
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It's a combination of the point choice by the automaker and the individual owner of the car.
- Luxury cars typically get better paint and consequently more expensive paint job because of consumer demand.
- Long term luxury car owners are more likely to use a different maintenance regimen. Avoiding automatic car washes. Using car wash soap rather than dish soap. Semi-annual or annual detailing by themselves or a professional.
- Non-luxury car owners are typically first time car owners and due to their lack of experience are more likely to use the incorrect technique and/or products when detailing the vehicle themselves thereby damaging the clear coat.
- Luxury cars typically get better paint and consequently more expensive paint job because of consumer demand.
- Long term luxury car owners are more likely to use a different maintenance regimen. Avoiding automatic car washes. Using car wash soap rather than dish soap. Semi-annual or annual detailing by themselves or a professional.
- Non-luxury car owners are typically first time car owners and due to their lack of experience are more likely to use the incorrect technique and/or products when detailing the vehicle themselves thereby damaging the clear coat.
Originally Posted by grampi
Hondas have always had super thin paint. They do such a good job with the rest of the vehicle, but why do they scrimp on the paint?
Cost. They have their own material cost pressures as well as that of their competitors.
Hondas have always had super thin paint. They do such a good job with the rest of the vehicle, but why do they scrimp on the paint?
Cost. They have their own material cost pressures as well as that of their competitors.
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The "made in Japan" Japanese cars were light years better than the current "made in USA" Japanese cars.
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
The "made in Japan" Japanese cars were light years better than the current "made in USA" Japanese cars.
I agree generally though my comparison is many years ago. The Mitsubishi cars I owned, a 92 and a 2000 were exceptional compared to the US assembled Galant for example.
The "made in Japan" Japanese cars were light years better than the current "made in USA" Japanese cars.
I agree generally though my comparison is many years ago. The Mitsubishi cars I owned, a 92 and a 2000 were exceptional compared to the US assembled Galant for example.
Originally Posted by domer10
Originally Posted by PimTac
The vehicles that have been taken care of right from the start will show that. Use a qood quality sealant protective trim coating. Proper washing with good quality microfiber is essential.
Exactly, I don't know why you people just don't get on a proper program on car paint right away from the start. Don't know about you but I sure as [censored] am buying whatever car I am searching regardless of year with the most meticulous or up kept paint.
Hehe, the last car I bought easily has the worst paint of anything I've ever owned--clearcoat is totally gone from any horizontal surface, and I think most of the car has been repainted. But it was rust-free underneath, which is all that I cared about (well that and being cheap).
Originally Posted by PimTac
The vehicles that have been taken care of right from the start will show that. Use a qood quality sealant protective trim coating. Proper washing with good quality microfiber is essential.
Exactly, I don't know why you people just don't get on a proper program on car paint right away from the start. Don't know about you but I sure as [censored] am buying whatever car I am searching regardless of year with the most meticulous or up kept paint.
Hehe, the last car I bought easily has the worst paint of anything I've ever owned--clearcoat is totally gone from any horizontal surface, and I think most of the car has been repainted. But it was rust-free underneath, which is all that I cared about (well that and being cheap).
In New England old Honda and old BMW look equally bad after 15 years unless owner garages and took care of paint well and did not drive in winter conditions.
Originally Posted by domer10
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by domer10
Originally Posted by parshisa
The way 99% of car owners in US maintain their cars (cosmetic wise), orange peel or lack of thereof will make 0 difference- cars will be covered with scratches and swirls caused by automatic car washes and you won't even see the orange peel
This is exactly it, It's amazing to think that people expect the hold up to exposure of heat/uv rays without any sort or care. I have family in Florida, and it's amazing to see the condition of 1-2 year old high end vehicles with faded, swirled paint. Clear coat is soft and unless the day you get it and start a proper car care procedure....it's not going to stand a chance. Unless it's garaged, but even then just preventing the inevitable. It's not a coincidence that you have 3-4 year old vehicles across all makes and model that need paint correction done.
Every vehicle I have ever owned, from new or even purchased used, first thing I do is give it a nice proper wax, and maintain it after every wash with spray wax. And I have never had a issue, and always been complimented at time of sale or just in general. I was lucky to find a mint 2013 Jeep Wrangler that was stock, meticulously maintained and in a garage most of time. After few coats of wax and maintaining it, that silver metallic pops like day it came out of factory.
And if people just did this right from new, that few bucks and few hours you spend taking care of it, you will make it up on resale. Not to mention how much easier it is to wax a new vehicle compared to one that has never been touched even after a year or two.
Disagree-a cars paint with regular washing with todays clear coats should hold up for the life of the car-even without waxing.
You can't be serious, it's common sense. Look at what the sun alone especially in southern states to things left outside unprotected, I guess they just magically change colour on their own. And I guess it's just a coincidence that every left unprotected not just recently made but older must just magically fade on their own.
Do your yourself a favour and research protected paint vs un protected. And it's laughable to say that clearcoat should last the life of a vehicle. LMAO between uv damage and contamination from dirt, and pretty much being sandblasted while driving in certain areas....ya it's really going to hold up.
I've seen paint burn off within five years here in Tucson. Many don't even have covered parking and some simply don't care, I guess.
In LA the morning dew would leave black specks of pepper like debris on your car. That atmospheric junk combined with moisture would eat off ordinary wax within a few weeks.
My 05 ION looks like a late model because I have cared for the paint. My 63 Valiant, repainted 17 years ago [and cheaply @ One Day Paint ] still looks fresh and respectable. Both are glossy, lush and deep and well maintained.
Regular washing and NuFinish, Kozak dry wash cloths and CA Car Duster have kept them shining. Others use different combinations and will have the same result. Paint needs care, period.And it shows when it's given.
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by domer10
Originally Posted by parshisa
The way 99% of car owners in US maintain their cars (cosmetic wise), orange peel or lack of thereof will make 0 difference- cars will be covered with scratches and swirls caused by automatic car washes and you won't even see the orange peel
This is exactly it, It's amazing to think that people expect the hold up to exposure of heat/uv rays without any sort or care. I have family in Florida, and it's amazing to see the condition of 1-2 year old high end vehicles with faded, swirled paint. Clear coat is soft and unless the day you get it and start a proper car care procedure....it's not going to stand a chance. Unless it's garaged, but even then just preventing the inevitable. It's not a coincidence that you have 3-4 year old vehicles across all makes and model that need paint correction done.
Every vehicle I have ever owned, from new or even purchased used, first thing I do is give it a nice proper wax, and maintain it after every wash with spray wax. And I have never had a issue, and always been complimented at time of sale or just in general. I was lucky to find a mint 2013 Jeep Wrangler that was stock, meticulously maintained and in a garage most of time. After few coats of wax and maintaining it, that silver metallic pops like day it came out of factory.
And if people just did this right from new, that few bucks and few hours you spend taking care of it, you will make it up on resale. Not to mention how much easier it is to wax a new vehicle compared to one that has never been touched even after a year or two.
Disagree-a cars paint with regular washing with todays clear coats should hold up for the life of the car-even without waxing.
You can't be serious, it's common sense. Look at what the sun alone especially in southern states to things left outside unprotected, I guess they just magically change colour on their own. And I guess it's just a coincidence that every left unprotected not just recently made but older must just magically fade on their own.
Do your yourself a favour and research protected paint vs un protected. And it's laughable to say that clearcoat should last the life of a vehicle. LMAO between uv damage and contamination from dirt, and pretty much being sandblasted while driving in certain areas....ya it's really going to hold up.
I've seen paint burn off within five years here in Tucson. Many don't even have covered parking and some simply don't care, I guess.
In LA the morning dew would leave black specks of pepper like debris on your car. That atmospheric junk combined with moisture would eat off ordinary wax within a few weeks.
My 05 ION looks like a late model because I have cared for the paint. My 63 Valiant, repainted 17 years ago [and cheaply @ One Day Paint ] still looks fresh and respectable. Both are glossy, lush and deep and well maintained.
Regular washing and NuFinish, Kozak dry wash cloths and CA Car Duster have kept them shining. Others use different combinations and will have the same result. Paint needs care, period.And it shows when it's given.
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Honda isn't known for great paint - I'm already seeing 7th gen Accords and 8th-9th gen Civics with screwed up paint. The Japanese-made cars are slightly better. Toyota tends to have better paint when it comes to the Japanese OEMs. Mercedes was the first to introduce waterborne paint on an OEM basis - they worked with BASF. Mercedes and PPG worked together to create a nano-ceramic clearcoat as well. The Americans started to use waterborne systems from PPG and DuPont in the early 1990s but they had adhesion issues - GM was affected the most but Chrysler(PPG) and Ford(BASF/PPG) was also affected.
Mercedes for a long time used a really durable Glasurit lacquer and they were strict about aftermarket refinishing. Porsche was fond of Standox. The better body shops that worked on German cars were proud to spray Spies Hecker, Standox or Glasurit. Axalta(DuPont) now owns Spies Hecker and Standox, PPG has gotten Mercedes approvals with their Nexa/Global/Envirobase systems.
There's only a handful of paint suppliers to the OEMs - PPG, BASF and Axalta do business with the American and Europeans. Nippon Paint and Kansai Paint supply the Japanese(and maybe Hyundai-Kia but I wouldn't be surprised if Korea Chemical or a Hyundai/SK/LG/Lotte affiliate has an agreement with PPG or Axalta) but they have agreements with PPG or Axalta to supply the American/Canadian plants.
Originally Posted by spasm3
I wonder if the cars painted outside of the USA have better paint? Are USA oem paints now low voc due to EPA?
All the OEM-level stuff these days are low-VOC waterborne or solvent. The newest OEM systems combine the primer/1st color coat into one basecoat and an additional color coat. PPG created this system for the OEMs. http://www.ppgautocoatings.com/Products/Compact-Paint-Systems.aspx
The aftermarket paint suppliers are pushing waterborne for body shops, the biggest reason besides emissions is better color match against OEM and a quicker process time in a well-equipped shop to handle waterborne. Waterborne basecoats don't need to "flash" off like solventborne. The painter "hits" the sprayed area with a hand-held venturi dryer and as soon as the sprayed base becomes flat/matte, the 2nd coat can go on or it can be cleared and sent out of the booth.
Mercedes for a long time used a really durable Glasurit lacquer and they were strict about aftermarket refinishing. Porsche was fond of Standox. The better body shops that worked on German cars were proud to spray Spies Hecker, Standox or Glasurit. Axalta(DuPont) now owns Spies Hecker and Standox, PPG has gotten Mercedes approvals with their Nexa/Global/Envirobase systems.
There's only a handful of paint suppliers to the OEMs - PPG, BASF and Axalta do business with the American and Europeans. Nippon Paint and Kansai Paint supply the Japanese(and maybe Hyundai-Kia but I wouldn't be surprised if Korea Chemical or a Hyundai/SK/LG/Lotte affiliate has an agreement with PPG or Axalta) but they have agreements with PPG or Axalta to supply the American/Canadian plants.
Originally Posted by spasm3
I wonder if the cars painted outside of the USA have better paint? Are USA oem paints now low voc due to EPA?
All the OEM-level stuff these days are low-VOC waterborne or solvent. The newest OEM systems combine the primer/1st color coat into one basecoat and an additional color coat. PPG created this system for the OEMs. http://www.ppgautocoatings.com/Products/Compact-Paint-Systems.aspx
The aftermarket paint suppliers are pushing waterborne for body shops, the biggest reason besides emissions is better color match against OEM and a quicker process time in a well-equipped shop to handle waterborne. Waterborne basecoats don't need to "flash" off like solventborne. The painter "hits" the sprayed area with a hand-held venturi dryer and as soon as the sprayed base becomes flat/matte, the 2nd coat can go on or it can be cleared and sent out of the booth.
So most you guys think the vehicles that came out the factory and go straight to the dealer , without require any kind of paint rework or paint touch up by the technician ?
Paint damage or clear coat flake off early then you though is cause by cheap water base paint and cheap 2k clear coat that factory use .
Second are cause by the technician . Like I say , after the unit got paint by the robot . It roll into a paint touch up zone where the worker check for dirt or paint damage , that cause by the oven or the robot , 99% of unit came off the oven have dirt that require to be sand out with the sander and repolish .
This where the clear coat get thin . The technician try get the dirt off the unit by sand deep down the clear coat , take off layer and layer of clear coat off the paint . Some time accident happen where technician sand too much , they sand past the clear coat into the paint , if that technician report it , it will get send to another zone for repaint by another technician , depend on how good that technician , most just do a half [censored] paint job and send it off to get trims door and everything else install....
Here the trick . The quality peoples will only focust on driver side door and eye level area , they don't care so much on below the kneel or other side of the vechicles , because they know driver side is where customer will see first
When buy new vehicles , check all area , right rear passenger side door , inside between the door . The roof . Below the kneel . Below the tail light , between the emblem .
It's hard to check under bed rail cover since any damage from factory . 99% off time if they damage and the truck will have bed rail cover , the technician will install the bed rail cover over the damage ..
I work 3 different cars factory , they are all similar , their paint quality is really bad. I seen what technician did to the unit , made me never want to own a new cars .
Paint damage or clear coat flake off early then you though is cause by cheap water base paint and cheap 2k clear coat that factory use .
Second are cause by the technician . Like I say , after the unit got paint by the robot . It roll into a paint touch up zone where the worker check for dirt or paint damage , that cause by the oven or the robot , 99% of unit came off the oven have dirt that require to be sand out with the sander and repolish .
This where the clear coat get thin . The technician try get the dirt off the unit by sand deep down the clear coat , take off layer and layer of clear coat off the paint . Some time accident happen where technician sand too much , they sand past the clear coat into the paint , if that technician report it , it will get send to another zone for repaint by another technician , depend on how good that technician , most just do a half [censored] paint job and send it off to get trims door and everything else install....
Here the trick . The quality peoples will only focust on driver side door and eye level area , they don't care so much on below the kneel or other side of the vechicles , because they know driver side is where customer will see first
When buy new vehicles , check all area , right rear passenger side door , inside between the door . The roof . Below the kneel . Below the tail light , between the emblem .
It's hard to check under bed rail cover since any damage from factory . 99% off time if they damage and the truck will have bed rail cover , the technician will install the bed rail cover over the damage ..
I work 3 different cars factory , they are all similar , their paint quality is really bad. I seen what technician did to the unit , made me never want to own a new cars .
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