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Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) #5281020 11/30/19 10:49 AM
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MichaelDCRogers Offline OP
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So comparing 0w40 oils with 5w40 oils, or any 0w or 5w oil for the matter, it would seem the 5w40, 5w(s) in general, aren't consumed or burned off as easily as 0w oils due to overall hths or thickness; but 0w oils might have superior base stocks and lower Noack ratings to compensate. I observed a 5w40 be consumed at roughly the same rate as a 0w40, Castrol Oe 5w40 and Edge 0w40 respectively.
What are your thoughts and what were your experiences?

Last edited by MichaelDCRogers; 11/30/19 10:51 AM.
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5281037 11/30/19 11:10 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Oils with a lower winter rating are thinner?


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 428K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5281183 11/30/19 02:02 PM
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MichaelDCRogers Offline OP
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Also consider shear rates for an interval...

Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5281214 11/30/19 02:33 PM
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As a "general" rule since I haven't seen many outliers or discussion of the topic, I have noticed that:
1. Within the same grade of oil (20 wt etc)
2. Higher VI generally reports higher NOACK.

Sure there are probably outliers. But for my level of interest and the amount that it actually matters in an engine (which is likely not much since nobody has really investigated/discussed this relationship from what I've seen), these two rules are simple enough to allow you to partake in either the blue pill or the red pill depending on your propensity for a specific primary color.

Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5281716 12/01/19 08:15 AM
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MichaelDCRogers Offline OP
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I also noted that in some Used oil analysis' that 5w40s or 5w(s) of lesser quality base stocks and higher noack ratings sheared to light 30 weights in European engines or any engine causing fuel dilution from direct injection and resultingly be consumed at a faster rate, surprisingly when compared to higher quality 0w european blend oils....

Last edited by MichaelDCRogers; 12/01/19 08:20 AM.
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5281735 12/01/19 08:38 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by MichaelDCRogers
I also noted that in some Used oil analysis' that 5w40s or 5w(s) of lesser quality base stocks and higher noack ratings sheared to light 30 weights in European engines or any engine causing fuel dilution from direct injection and resultingly be consumed at a faster rate, surprisingly when compared to higher quality 0w european blend oils....

First off, how do you conclusively discern base stock composition from a UOA? And second, if you are using UOA produced by the most predominant UOA provider on this site then you cannot distinguish fuel dilution from actual mechanical shear, it is not possible. So be careful how much you are attributing to any base stock or any composition.


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 428K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: kschachn] #5281991 12/01/19 12:43 PM
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MichaelDCRogers Offline OP
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I rely off the oil-manufacturer data sheets, both the Tdss' Msds for each oil concerning base stocks and additive packs, Thank you. Although the values at the bottom of each UOA detail viscosity indexs after each sample taken from an interval, they aren't the most accurate or precise; but they do give a general idea. Also, I've reviewed a number of UOA from all over the web; and Especially the ones that have two intervals with two different oils listed on the same sheet.

Last edited by MichaelDCRogers; 12/01/19 12:43 PM.
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5281999 12/01/19 12:55 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by MichaelDCRogers
I rely off the oil-manufacturer data sheets, both the Tdss' Msds for each oil concerning base stocks and additive packs, Thank you. Although the values at the bottom of each UOA detail viscosity indexs after each sample taken from an interval, they aren't the most accurate or precise; but they do give a general idea. Also, I've reviewed a number of UOA from all over the web; and Especially the ones that have two intervals with two different oils listed on the same sheet.

For larger spread between two numbers you need better base stock if certain specifications are being achieved (MB229.5 for example). But the question is what manufacturer is trying to achieve, so some oils will have better stock than others.
As for you reviewing UOA, that is flawed methodology, and I am being generous.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: edyvw] #5282084 12/01/19 02:45 PM
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MichaelDCRogers Offline OP
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My mistake.
Why do people rely on UOAs to conclude an oil is bad if it shows a lower viscosity index at the end of its interval; "it sheared excessively."
Also, how much of your 0w40 Castrol is consumed vs other oils including the dealership castrol?

Last edited by MichaelDCRogers; 12/01/19 02:48 PM.
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5282212 12/01/19 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelDCRogers
My mistake.
Why do people rely on UOAs to conclude an oil is bad if it shows a lower viscosity index at the end of its interval; "it sheared excessively."
Also, how much of your 0w40 Castrol is consumed vs other oils including the dealership castrol?

A. People rely on UOA for various reasons. Some metals will show problem with certain part that might be known to be problematic. TBN retention, TAN, fuel dilution issues etc.
B. My car does not use Castrol Edge 0W40 period. It does not use Castrol Edge 0W30 also. It did not use Mobil1 ESP Formula 5W30. It did not use Mobil1 0W40.
I used for example Castrol Syntec 5W40 in passat 1.8T and it did not use it, but it did develop ticking noise at 4,000 miles exactly. With other oils I did not have that issue.
Not sure why you assuming that vehicle has to use oil or that it is oil issue? It could be numerous other reasons.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: edyvw] #5282239 12/01/19 05:35 PM
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MichaelDCRogers Offline OP
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You recommended Edge 0w40 before,? But if you've ever used a 0w oil with a quality base stock did it to burn off in a high mileage application?

Last edited by MichaelDCRogers; 12/01/19 05:38 PM.
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5282243 12/01/19 05:39 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by MichaelDCRogers
You recommended Edge 0w40 before,? But if you've ever used a 0w oil with a quality base stock did it to burn off in a high mileage application?

I use Castrol or Mobil 1 0W-40 in my old Sienna, and at over 425,000 miles it does not "burn off" any more or any less than any other oil of that grade.


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 428K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: kschachn] #5282250 12/01/19 05:45 PM
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MichaelDCRogers Offline OP
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Good cars, Toyotas. Family member's Scion TC has 267,000 miles on it running convention or semi synthetic 5w30 and it burns only 1/8th a quart, checked at the end of an interval; something thinner then alot of Euro blend 5w30 or 0w oils.

Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: kschachn] #5282360 12/01/19 08:08 PM
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OilReport99 Offline
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by MichaelDCRogers
You recommended Edge 0w40 before,? But if you've ever used a 0w oil with a quality base stock did it to burn off in a high mileage application?

I use Castrol or Mobil 1 0W-40 in my old Sienna, and at over 425,000 miles it does not "burn off" any more or any less than any other oil of that grade.

Just out of curiosity...why a Euro oil for the Sienna?

Thanks


2018 Ram 1500 5.7 17k - VME 5W-20
2018 Camry 2.5 13K - TGMO 0W-16
2007 Impala 3.5 145k - M1EP 5W-30
Re: Noack Vs Thickness (Consumption) [Re: MichaelDCRogers] #5282442 12/01/19 09:47 PM
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MichaelDCRogers Offline OP
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Supposed to state conventional. Spell-check. Euro blends are formulated to be a little thicker under better emissions standards concerning additive packs or lower noack ratings. They might stay in grade better because of their bases or unique additives. They're good makeshift high-mileage oils?

Last edited by MichaelDCRogers; 12/01/19 09:54 PM.
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