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Extended OCI Issues #5279567 11/28/19 08:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,609
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Gebo Offline OP
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You can see I try keep my cars for the duration. I only use OEM Toyota/Lexus parts and fluids (even brake fluid and batteries). For the majority of their lives (so far) my oils have varied from Amsoil to Redline to Schaeffers etc. Good oils with 5-10K OCI's.

My 4Runner and my '98 LS 400 started leaking oil from valve cover and cam seals and finally has progressed to staining the driveway.

I started listening to AGCO Podcasts and they are staunch proponents of 3K OCI. Here is a copy and paste from their website:

The most common cause of failure with valve cover gaskets is a lack of maintenance. With extended oil changes, we may deplete engine oil additives that help keep valve cover gaskets pliable.
Without this protection, gaskets and seals get hard and may start to leak.


What is your opinion of this statement? Are we being duped by our owner's manual instructions and our focus on oil analysis?


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279598 11/28/19 09:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,228
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simple_gifts Offline
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Why is the thread called "Extended OCI issues"; call it Old car issues.

Apparently you are looking past the 300K, 22 year old gaskets, 22 year old gasket technology, 1000s of cold hot cycles etc etc etc.

JMO


2004 Prius; 126K; ALM
2007 Yaris 103K ATM
2006 B2300;137K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279602 11/28/19 09:30 AM
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czbrian Offline
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If anything I think your vehicles prove the extended OCI is ok. At that age and miles, a leaky valve cover isn't really unexpected.


2019 Honda Pilot
1998 Chevrolet C1500
1995 Chevrolet C1500
2018 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279603 11/28/19 09:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,040
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JLTD Offline
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Posts: 3,040
A UOA will tell you when your additives are depleted. Plenty of 3,000 mile oil change vehicles needed head gasket replacement.

The article I expect would relate to diluters or shearing monsters, or people that use dino and forget to change their oil until way past any reasonable interval.


I use the overseas manual to choose my viscosity.


Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 154k, SS 5w30/Amsoil
Looking at options.

His: 2015 4Runner 60k, SS 5w20/Amsoil

Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279634 11/28/19 10:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,609
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Gebo Offline OP
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Posts: 3,609
I trust we will all have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

I'm curious at to what you think of the "pink" sentences. Is there any validity to those sentences?

I shouldn't have even listed my cars in the OP. I can't edit it now. Fiddlesticks!


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279644 11/28/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 23,243
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Donald Offline
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Originally Posted by Gebo
You can see I try keep my cars for the duration. I only use OEM Toyota/Lexus parts and fluids (even brake fluid and batteries). For the majority of their lives (so far) my oils have varied from Amsoil to Redline to Schaeffers etc. Good oils with 5-10K OCI's.

My 4Runner and my '98 LS 400 started leaking oil from valve cover and cam seals and finally has progressed to staining the driveway.

I started listening to AGCO Podcasts and they are staunch proponents of 3K OCI. Here is a copy and paste from their website:

The most common cause of failure with valve cover gaskets is a lack of maintenance. With extended oil changes, we may deplete engine oil additives that help keep valve cover gaskets pliable.
Without this protection, gaskets and seals get hard and may start to leak.


What is your opinion of this statement? Are we being duped by our owner's manual instructions and our focus on oil analysis?


I assume you are referring to seal conditioners. There are additives that get used up as the OCI increases. The ability to handle acids produced by combustion being one. As long as the oil is still usable with respect TBN, viscosity and various contaminates, I would not worry about the seal conditioner.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279658 11/28/19 10:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,040
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JLTD Offline
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Posts: 3,040
I could read the Pink just fine...some may draw conclusions due to the color choice. LOL let them.

And a correction - meant valve cover gaskets, not head gaskets. That'll teach me to post right after waking up.


I use the overseas manual to choose my viscosity.


Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 154k, SS 5w30/Amsoil
Looking at options.

His: 2015 4Runner 60k, SS 5w20/Amsoil

Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279659 11/28/19 10:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,159
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doitmyself Offline
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GEBO,

Somebody here turned me on to the AGCO auto care site a few years ago. They seem to be a top notch company that endorses excellent car car and ethical business practices.

Having said that, my perusal of their site indicates that they are not up to date on "some" modern car care topics. Their literature is somewhat self serving in that they often propose shorter maintenance schedules with the mantra that you will save big bucks over the long term by avoiding major issues.

Look at the link below. The KEY STATEMENT is that people should adjust their OCI based on their driving habits and conditions. Then the article lays out propaganda implying everyone is short trippers and they show sludge pictures to invoke fear in the uneducated. Their tactics are very obvious and should throw up a red flag for us educated oil nerds.

I like their promotion of ethical car care, but their scare tactics are a bit over the top.

Linky: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/54

"It is quite common for us to see vehicles with 200,000 to 300,000 miles that are still giving excellent service. Largely these are vehicles that have been well maintained, with three thousand mile oil changes. It is also very common to see vehicles with 100,000 miles that are no longer economically feasible to repair (NEFR.) Overall lowest cost of driving dictates prevention of problems, rather than repair or replacement. "


Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279677 11/28/19 11:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
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Gebo Offline OP
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Posts: 3,609
I just found AGCO a month ago. I hadn’t thought about conditioners being depleted over time. I have learned a lot from listening to them. They are big on OEM parts (as am I) for most parts. Big on Moog suspension replacement parts. And apparently they only sell Michelin tires and Motorcraft batteries. They really push diagnostic procedures.

They say the highest quality of vehicles were made late ‘90’s
up to around 2005-2006. Their opinion is many of today’s cars are designed to last 100k and then become disposable.

Many things they say make a lot of sense.

That’s why I want y’all’s opinion of the “pink sentences.”


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279695 11/28/19 11:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 567
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Railrust Offline
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Never heard of AGCO, but I read through some of their website and I agree with some of it. I think cars can handle a lot of abuse, but engines have changed over the past five years - direct injection has changed the game - no longer can people go 7,500 miles without opening the hood (I mean, they can but it's not the same as it was 5 years ago). I find these direct injection engines tend to use a little oil, and with the intervals from manufacturers going longer and longer? You see people come in and at 7,000 miles there's no oil on that dipstick. Can't be a good thing. And AGCO is right to an extent...most people do severe service and they aren't even aware of it. Even I commute a good 80 miles round trip every day...it's "ideal", but on the weekends I do lots of short tripping. Kind of ruins the "ideal" driving I do.

And I'll tell yeah, there's still a lot of techs out there that abide by the 3,000 mile oil change intervals on their own vehicles. I see it all of the time. I'm a tech. I tell them...hey, you're changing it too early, but they say they don't want to mess with going further...that oil is cheap...that I can be the crazy one and extend my intervals out to 5,000 miles (they think THAT'S too long, lol).

Last edited by Railrust; 11/28/19 11:21 AM.
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279711 11/28/19 11:32 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,637
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csandste Offline
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I've decided to go 5w30 with 5K OCI's because of DI, but the idea of changing very expensive oil at 3K intervals in order to save a valve cover at hundreds of thousands of miles doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


2017 Kia Soul Plus-- VWB 5w30+ a bit of Harvest King syn 5w30-- 70,000 miles
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279717 11/28/19 11:38 AM
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Posts: 3,609
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Gebo Offline OP
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Rear main seals can be pretty expensive. Cam seals can be very expensive, too.

But note, if you aren’t planning on keeping your car for 20 years it probably won’t matter.


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279746 11/28/19 12:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
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danez_yoda Offline
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Scotty Kilmer is big on this stuff. Worth a shot. Also switching to high mileage oil which has seal conditioners.

[url=https://www.amazon.com/ATP-AT-205-Re-Seal-Stops-Bottle/dp/B000NVW1LM?ref_=ast_bbp_dp][/url]

Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: Gebo] #5279757 11/28/19 12:26 PM
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borgward Offline
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Don't take the salesman's word for anything. Do an extended OCI, send sample in for analysis. That will tell you if enough is still in the oil or not.

Re: Extended OCI Issues [Re: danez_yoda] #5279764 11/28/19 12:44 PM
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Gebo Offline OP
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Originally Posted by danez_yoda

Scotty Kilmer is big on this stuff. Worth a shot. Also switching to high mileage oil which has seal conditioners.

[url=https://www.amazon.com/ATP-AT-205-Re-Seal-Stops-Bottle/dp/B000NVW1LM?ref_=ast_bbp_dp][/url]


It’s in my hand right now.


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
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