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Hard to start after getting gas #5278908 11/27/19 01:43 PM
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dan765 Offline OP
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Hello,

2008 Saturn Astra, ~50,000 miles. After I get gas, and only when I get gas, it has a hard time starting. It will turn over and turnover for several seconds. When it does catch, it stumbles and would cut out if I don't give it gas. Any ideas what might be causing it?

Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: dan765] #5278919 11/27/19 01:57 PM
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Talent_Keyhole Offline
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My guess is that the evap system/charcoal canister is overflowing with gas and causing excessive fuel being drawn into the engine. By pressing the accelerator you are increasing air flow in the intake, balancing out the fuel to air ratio.

Does it happen when you only fill the tank to 50% or just when you top it off. When you top off, do you continue to top off after the auto shutoff valve clicks off?

Even on my car, my fuel trims go way negative for a few minutes after a fuel up. The evap system is drawing in more fuel vapors than normal.

Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: dan765] #5278921 11/27/19 01:59 PM
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atikovi Offline
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Something with the evap system? Opening the cap releases pressure inside the tank so there is less pressure at the fuel rail? Try an experiment. Next time you're out somewhere, remove the cap for a minute like you're filling up. Put it back and see how it starts now.

Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5278924 11/27/19 02:05 PM
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dan765 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
My guess is that the evap system/charcoal canister is overflowing with gas and causing excessive fuel being drawn into the engine. By pressing the accelerator you are increasing air flow in the intake, balancing out the fuel to air ratio.

Does it happen when you only fill the tank to 50% or just when you top it off. When you top off, do you continue to top off after the auto shutoff valve clicks off?

Even on my car, my fuel trims go way negative for a few minutes after a fuel up. The evap system is drawing in more fuel vapors than normal.




It does it even if I just put a little bit in. I usually fill up, but sometimes I'll just put $10 in. But in either situation, it still has a hard time starting.

Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: atikovi] #5278925 11/27/19 02:06 PM
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dan765 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by atikovi
Something with the evap system? Opening the cap releases pressure inside the tank so there is less pressure at the fuel rail? Try an experiment. Next time you're out somewhere, remove the cap for a minute like you're filling up. Put it back and see how it starts now.


I'll try. Thanks. I would imagine it would still have a hard time. The past couple weeks, I've just left the car running when getting gas. But when I remove the gas cap, the engine starts running rough for a few seconds.

Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: dan765] #5278935 11/27/19 02:18 PM
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cb_13 Offline
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To mirror what everyone else is saying the issue is going to be in the evaporative emissions system. I've seen several Focus and F150's do the same thing due to a faulty canister purge valve.

Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: dan765] #5278939 11/27/19 02:25 PM
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14Accent Offline
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Your EVAP purge solenoid is stuck open. I 100% guarantee it.

Go ahead, go check it. I bet if you remove the electrical plug and vacuum line going from it to the tank it'll be flowing wide open vacuum.


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2007 Chevrolet Impala LT
Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: 14Accent] #5278957 11/27/19 02:39 PM
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Talent_Keyhole Offline
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Originally Posted by 14Accent
Your EVAP purge solenoid is stuck open. I 100% guarantee it.

Go ahead, go check it. I bet if you remove the electrical plug and vacuum line going from it to the tank it'll be flowing wide open vacuum.


Agree, knowing that the engine stumbles when the cap is removed pretty much confirms a stuck open purge valve.

Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: dan765] #5279217 11/27/19 07:52 PM
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Audios Offline
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Another vote for purge valve


2002 VW Golf TDI-T5 10/30
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI- M1 0/30 ESP
2005 BMW M3 BMW-Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-M1 15/50
1998 BMW M3/4/5-M1 10/40
Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: dan765] #5279267 11/27/19 08:49 PM
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tcp71 Offline
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Purge valve as stated. Part of the OBDII emissions system is a method to confirm your tank isn’t venting into the air. There is a solenoid connected to your intake system where there is a vacuum with a hose running to the fuel tank. Part of the emissions test is to draw a vacuum in the tank to confirm it’s sealed. This should only occur during a specific test cycle when it doesn’t interfere with drivability. If the solenoid valve leaks you are drawing the vacuum when it shouldn’t, and often at mich greater vacuum than intended. On some F150 models it can bow in the sides of the tank enough to bend the fuel level sender and affect the fuel gauge readings permanently.


2016 F150 Eco: Edge 0w40
2005 Sienna 3.3: NAPA 5w30 syn. (varies)
Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: dan765] #5279346 11/27/19 11:22 PM
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Leo99 Offline
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My Rav4 had the same problem. Replaced the carbon canister with integrated valve and the problem went away. Hopefully, you can replace just the purge valve. The canister is pricey.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 392,000 miles
2015 Camry 90,000 miles
Re: Hard to start after getting gas [Re: dan765] #5287170 12/06/19 07:01 PM
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dan765 Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies. I'm looking to see what part I need to get. I've found a Canister Vent Valve Solenoid and a Canister Purge Valve. Which one is it that I should get?
.

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