best LL01 oil (for F10 M5/S63Tu)?

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hello all,

first off: new poster here, but I've read quite a few threads since getting my new car. thanks for all the info!

anyways, I bought an F10 M5 back in the late spring and at that time my preliminary research had me slated to use Castrol Edge 0W-40, which seemed the best easily available and relatively cheap LL01 oil. Now that I'm actually going to do an oil change I read that in the interim they have lost LL01. doh. so the question is: do I keep on with Edge 0w40 or is there a better, LL01-approved choice (that isn't 2.5-3x the price)?

From what I've been able to deduce this far, it seems that in order to stay LL01, it's either arguably worse oil or it's harder to get and 2.5x-3x the price, while not being necessarily any better. that said, my two hesitations with Edge 0w40 now are:

1. did they lose it for any reason relevant to my M5? (or was it the N20 motor or Castrol just not bothering to recert?)
2. I have an aftermarket warranty - are they going to blame me if something blows up, even though 0w-40 is arguably better than easy alternatives like the current BMW 5w30, edge 5w40, etc. (and on that note, how the heck would they know?)
 
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I personally would keep using it. I think the license just timed out and nothing specific with the oil cause the loss. Lot's of threads here you can read about it but I think you can use the Castrol and sleep well at night.
 
Use 0W40. They did not lost it. LL01 is being phased out. Those that still have LL01 are using older oil formulation that is approved lready. However, 0W40 went through small change in formulation recently and cannot be approved again as BMW is not approving LL01 anymore.
What you want to make sure is that oil is approved for MB229.5 as it is more stringent than LL01 and MB is still approving oils for that specification.
If you really want LL01, Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40 has it and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 has it. Both are also MB 229.5 approved.
 
Castrol Edge 5W-40 still has LL-01 if that's important and you can get it for about the same $$ at WM. Back in the day did M-series cars used to take a different oil like a 10W-60?
 
Originally Posted by Egg_Head
Castrol Edge 5W-40 still has LL-01 if that's important and you can get it for about the same $$ at WM. Back in the day did M-series cars used to take a different oil like a 10W-60?


somehow the new SHU 5w-40 has it too
 
Originally Posted by Egg_Head
Castrol Edge 5W-40 still has LL-01 if that's important and you can get it for about the same $$ at WM. Back in the day did M-series cars used to take a different oil like a 10W-60?


Only 3 M-engines did.

S54(I6), S65(V8), S85(V10). The S65(V8) and S85(V10) were kissing cousins.
 
Originally Posted by Egg_Head
Castrol Edge 5W-40 still has LL-01 if that's important and you can get it for about the same $$ at WM. Back in the day did M-series cars used to take a different oil like a 10W-60?


Yeah, I saw that one still has it, but my understanding is it's otherwise an inferior oil. I have a hard time switching to an arguably inferior oil for LL01 alone, other than my concern that the aftermarket warranty might use it as an excuse. But again, I have no idea how the heck they'd know, and the impression I got from them is I just need to show i was within the prescribed interval, didn't ignore low oil warnings, etc.

As mentioned above, the generation prior to my F10 M5 and the F80 M3 did, but they've moved away from that, largely for efficiency reasons, I believe.

Thanks for all the responses.
 
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Originally Posted by vafan13
Originally Posted by Egg_Head
Castrol Edge 5W-40 still has LL-01 if that's important and you can get it for about the same $$ at WM. Back in the day did M-series cars used to take a different oil like a 10W-60?


Yeah, I saw that one still has it, but my understanding is it's otherwise an inferior oil. I have a hard time switching to an arguably inferior oil for LL01 alone, other than my concern that the aftermarket warranty might use it as an excuse. But again, I have no idea how the heck they'd know, and the impression I got from them is I just need to show i was within the prescribed interval, didn't ignore low oil warnings, etc.

As mentioned above, the generation prior to my F10 M5 and the F80 M3 did, but they've moved away from that, largely for efficiency reasons, I believe.

Thanks for all the responses.

Castrol Edge 5W40 does not have MB229.5. For the same price you are getting 0W40 that has MB229.5. You get same HTHS but 0W40 has lower KV100 and Noack. That indicates better base stock.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by vafan13
Originally Posted by Egg_Head
Castrol Edge 5W-40 still has LL-01 if that's important and you can get it for about the same $$ at WM. Back in the day did M-series cars used to take a different oil like a 10W-60?


Yeah, I saw that one still has it, but my understanding is it's otherwise an inferior oil. I have a hard time switching to an arguably inferior oil for LL01 alone, other than my concern that the aftermarket warranty might use it as an excuse. But again, I have no idea how the heck they'd know, and the impression I got from them is I just need to show i was within the prescribed interval, didn't ignore low oil warnings, etc.

As mentioned above, the generation prior to my F10 M5 and the F80 M3 did, but they've moved away from that, largely for efficiency reasons, I believe.

Thanks for all the responses.

Castrol Edge 5W40 does not have MB229.5. For the same price you are getting 0W40 that has MB229.5. You get same HTHS but 0W40 has lower KV100 and Noack. That indicates better base stock.



I don't understand how a lower KV100 indicates a better base stock? ( I'm really trying to learn here.)

Also, if OCI's are kept low (I end up hitting a year before 7,000 miles on my N52 engine) do you see any negative to going with the LL01 5W-40? I've gathered that the difference between MB 229.3 and 229.5 is the OCI and filter media.
 
Originally Posted by GJM120
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by vafan13
Originally Posted by Egg_Head
Castrol Edge 5W-40 still has LL-01 if that's important and you can get it for about the same $$ at WM. Back in the day did M-series cars used to take a different oil like a 10W-60?


Yeah, I saw that one still has it, but my understanding is it's otherwise an inferior oil. I have a hard time switching to an arguably inferior oil for LL01 alone, other than my concern that the aftermarket warranty might use it as an excuse. But again, I have no idea how the heck they'd know, and the impression I got from them is I just need to show i was within the prescribed interval, didn't ignore low oil warnings, etc.

As mentioned above, the generation prior to my F10 M5 and the F80 M3 did, but they've moved away from that, largely for efficiency reasons, I believe.

Thanks for all the responses.

Castrol Edge 5W40 does not have MB229.5. For the same price you are getting 0W40 that has MB229.5. You get same HTHS but 0W40 has lower KV100 and Noack. That indicates better base stock.



I don't understand how a lower KV100 indicates a better base stock? ( I'm really trying to learn here.)

Also, if OCI's are kept low (I end up hitting a year before 7,000 miles on my N52 engine) do you see any negative to going with the LL01 5W-40? I've gathered that the difference between MB 229.3 and 229.5 is the OCI and filter media.


It's the Noack, not the KV100. Lower Noack typically indicates a heavier, and better base.
 
For 7k OCI truthfully either one will work and you will probably never notice a difference at all. To steal an analogy someone used a couple weeks ago, it depends on whether you like to use a twelve foot or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole.
 
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
For 7k OCI truthfully either one will work and you will probably never notice a difference at all. To steal an analogy someone used a couple weeks ago, it depends on whether you like to use a twelve foot or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole.



Funny.
Pretty much what I figured. Thanks
 
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
For 7k OCI truthfully either one will work and you will probably never notice a difference at all. To steal an analogy someone used a couple weeks ago, it depends on whether you like to use a twelve foot or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole.



Actually I prefer a 15 foot ladder to get out of a 10 foot hole, its safer.
 
Originally Posted by GJM120
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by vafan13
Originally Posted by Egg_Head
Castrol Edge 5W-40 still has LL-01 if that's important and you can get it for about the same $$ at WM. Back in the day did M-series cars used to take a different oil like a 10W-60?


Yeah, I saw that one still has it, but my understanding is it's otherwise an inferior oil. I have a hard time switching to an arguably inferior oil for LL01 alone, other than my concern that the aftermarket warranty might use it as an excuse. But again, I have no idea how the heck they'd know, and the impression I got from them is I just need to show i was within the prescribed interval, didn't ignore low oil warnings, etc.

As mentioned above, the generation prior to my F10 M5 and the F80 M3 did, but they've moved away from that, largely for efficiency reasons, I believe.

Thanks for all the responses.

Castrol Edge 5W40 does not have MB229.5. For the same price you are getting 0W40 that has MB229.5. You get same HTHS but 0W40 has lower KV100 and Noack. That indicates better base stock.



I don't understand how a lower KV100 indicates a better base stock? ( I'm really trying to learn here.)

Also, if OCI's are kept low (I end up hitting a year before 7,000 miles on my N52 engine) do you see any negative to going with the LL01 5W-40? I've gathered that the difference between MB 229.3 and 229.5 is the OCI and filter media.

Because 0W40 has same HTHS of 3.7cp as 5W40, but cst is 13.1 while 5W40 cst is 13.9. HTHS is what matters most here. This indicates better or more sophisticated base. And if you look at MSDS 5W40 is Group III, 0W40 is 25-50% PAO.
Also, in addition to this 0W40 has Noack of 9.1%, while 5W40 has Noack of 11%. Lower Noack is harder to achieve in oils with wider spread between first (xW) and second number (Wxx).
 
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Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
For 7k OCI truthfully either one will work and you will probably never notice a difference at all. To steal an analogy someone used a couple weeks ago, it depends on whether you like to use a twelve foot or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole.


Deposits etc. start forming immediately not at the end of OCI. MB229.5 (0W40) compared to 5W40 (MB229.3) is much more stringent in deposit control, Noack and wear. And they are same price.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
For 7k OCI truthfully either one will work and you will probably never notice a difference at all. To steal an analogy someone used a couple weeks ago, it depends on whether you like to use a twelve foot or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole.


Deposits etc. start forming immediately not at the end of OCI. MB229.5 (0W40) compared to 5W40 (MB229.3) is much more stringent in deposit control, Noack and wear. And they are same price.


I would choose 0w40 as well every time unless there was an availability issue or something. For example here in Canada 0w40 was not available for a long time, easiest Euro oil to find was (at the time) Syntec 5w40. I used it for years without issues but obviously that does not mean it was the best.
 
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
For 7k OCI truthfully either one will work and you will probably never notice a difference at all. To steal an analogy someone used a couple weeks ago, it depends on whether you like to use a twelve foot or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole.


Deposits etc. start forming immediately not at the end of OCI. MB229.5 (0W40) compared to 5W40 (MB229.3) is much more stringent in deposit control, Noack and wear. And they are same price.


I would choose 0w40 as well every time unless there was an availability issue or something. For example here in Canada 0w40 was not available for a long time, easiest Euro oil to find was (at the time) Syntec 5w40. I used it for years without issues but obviously that does not mean it was the best.


I used Syntec 5W40 in Passat B5.5 1.8T. At 4 K like on the clock it would start developing valvetrain noise. never had that issue with SYntec 0W30, M1 0W40, Pennzoil 5W40.
 
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