What are the true dangers in using non OEM coolants?

[Sayjac]

First of all, those aren't comparisons to competing aftermarket PHOAT AFs which was is important. The other three are totally different AFs, all look like either DexCool or Dexclones. Not sure how Tin would be in a virgin AF which would lead one (me) to wonder about the rest of the analysis and if truly a virgin analysis. I wouldn't want Tin found in a virgin AF. Sure enough it shows moly but the source with the Tin is suspect and looks like some photoshop of title? Like to see link to this information.

And back to the topic, it doesn't really answer the OPs question about using competing aftermarket PHoat AFs which was your implied point with the comparison dated to 2003. Not an apples to apples comparison now with the many aftermarket Asian Phoat AF. And Toyota Red has been superseded Toyota SLL pink which according to Toyota is backward compatible.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by Sayjac
First of all, those aren't comparisons of competing aftermarket PHOAT AFs which was is important. The other three are totally different AFs, all look like either DexCool or Dexclones. Not sure how Tin would be in a virgin AF which would lead one (me) to wonder about the rest of the analysis and if truly a virgin analysis. I wouldn't want Tin found in a virgin AF. Sure enough it shows moly but the source with the Tin is suspect and looks like some photoshop of title? Like to see link to this information.

And back to the topic, it doesn't really answer the OPs question about using competing aftermarket PHoat AFs which was your implied point with the comparison dated to 2003. Not an apples to apples comparison now with the many aftermarket Asian Phoat AF now. And Toyota Red has been superseded Toyota SLL pink which according to Toyota is backward compatible.


My man, first of all you said I was giving an "ATF" analysis. Then you questioned the "molybdenum." Then you questioned the "tin." Then you questioned "me" again as wanting proof of my recollections.

I wasn't trying to answer OP. I was answering your "doubts." I am solely concerned with edumicating you by answering your direct questions and implications you made to me. A thank you would be nice.

 

[Railrust]

Here's why I always just used Toyota Super Long Life in my Lexus...I just didn't want to go through the trouble of draining everything out...hoping everything did come out (thermostat opening, block draining, getting the flush out), then filling it with something else that may/maybe not, cause an issue (probably not cause an issue).

Instead I just drained the radiator and put the Toyota factory coolant in and called it a day. I know it didn't get all of it out, but I did that once a year...maybe once every two years and the cooling systems was the least of my worries.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted by Gebo
...I wasn't trying to answer OP. I was answering your "doubts." I am solely concerned with edumicating you by answering your direct questions and implications you made to me....

I thought you posted you were not going to reply, but "let the pdf speak for itself"? Not so much.

My actual words as ATF reference was "sounds like" , I always try to qualify.

And if you weren't trying to answer/help OP, why directly re: the OP and reference the 2003 pdf analysis to Toyota Red comparison and say you weren't sure how much damage from using other than Toyota Pink or Red? Sure seems like an implied answer to the OP to me.

I do appreciate you finding that pdf as requested, I think it may have been posted on this subforum before iirc. That said, for the reasons already given, I can't give it much credibility to the topic question and otherwise.

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted by Gebo
Sayjac, I fully expect you to argue and disagree and point out issues with this analysis. I will not respond as I will let the pdf speak for itself.


Except for the Peak, the freeze points for the listed % ethylene glycol make no sense.

Ed

 

[kschachn]

And I'm not entirely sure how you define the freeze point of an ethylene glycol mixture anyway.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by Sayjac
Originally Posted by Gebo
...I wasn't trying to answer OP. I was answering your "doubts." I am solely concerned with edumicating you by answering your direct questions and implications you made to me....

I thought you posted you were not going to reply, but "let the pdf speak for itself"? Not so much.

My actual words as ATF reference was "sounds like" , I always try to qualify.

And if you weren't trying to answer/help OP, why directly re: the OP and reference the 2003 pdf analysis to Toyota Red comparison and say you weren't sure how much damage using other than Toyota Pink or Red? Sure seems like an implied answer to the OP to me.

I do appreciate you finding that pdf as requested, I think it may have been posted on this subforum before iirc. That said, for the reasons given, I can't give it much credibility to the topic question and otherwise.


You are something else. I guess I need to edumicate you a little more. In my opening post I was trying to help the OP. DUH

Then you basically said I was wrong or you were ignorant. My posting of the coolant analysis was only for you to illustrate that I was right and you were ignorant. Ignorant just means you don't know. No implications as to level of intelligence as you
have demonstrated you are far more intelligent than I am. The way you work things around is masterful. I admire that.

The only reason I posted the pdf was you asked me to prove to you I had evidence to my claim. It has very little to do with the OP other than to show different coolants have different formulations and I thought it very interesting how much different the Toyota was. Even
you said you had never seen tin or molydenum in a virgin coolant sample. Well, now you have. See, you got edumicated today.

I am not responding to any challenges to the sample. I am responding to questions that I feel are regarding my integrity.

 

[kschachn]

I agree with Sayjac that it's an odd looking report and I also agree with edhackett that the "freeze point" for the material is not correct. So given those oddities and any other discrepancies I'm not inclined to believe the tin ppm either. But maybe that's just me.

BTW you are "something else" as well, I remember a few of your posts that adequately define that term.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by kschachn
..

BTW you are "something else" as well, I remember a few of your posts that adequately define that term.



You are most correct. My wife has made that comment to me several times. Actually, sometimes I don't even know about me.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted by Gebo
...In my opening post I was trying to help the OP....
So you were attempting to help the OP by mentioning the then unseen pdf comparison to other then unknown AFs. And a subsequent request made for link or source to confirm the information. It's now known because of that request that other AFs compared in the 2003 pdf are not the same AF types as Toyota oem, so really not really a relevant comparison. And not much help to the OP.

I already agreed that my skepticism to moly and tin in AF and that it is shown in the pdf. I still don't understand Tin finding in virgin Red AF, and note others not showing any. I will add, the AF comparison pdf itself looks sketchy 'to me'.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted by edhackett
Originally Posted by Gebo
Sayjac, I fully expect you to argue and disagree and point out issues with this analysis. I will not respond as I will let the pdf speak for itself.


Except for the Peak, the freeze points for the listed % ethylene glycol make no sense.
javascript: void(0)
Ed


That was the first thing I noticed. It could only be that the lab doing the analysis copied the stated values for the concentrate when mixed from the bottle label, but then tested the concentrate bottle contents to determine glycol content. For the Prestone entry, that would be the stated maximum at about a 70/30 mix (-84F), but certainly not for the concentration it was indicated was tested. The lab was not very thorough or consistent in their reporting.

Other than the Molybdenum value, there isn't anything that compellingly unique in the Red entry. And with obvious data entry errors in other parts of the report - one is forced to wonder...

 

[Warstud]

Keep it simple : Either use OEM or the cheaper aftermarket Zerex or Peak AF specified for your vehicle.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
You can use Zerex Asian with no problem

You want to avoid anything with 2-EHA, which is a plasticizer that eats gaskets

That is Dexcool's key ingredient and the reason it's called Deathcool

Most "all makes all models" coolants have 2-EHA, including all of Prestone's (even the ones labeled for Honda/Toyota/European, in th elittle half-gallon bottle at Walmart)

Peak Global Lifetime is safe. Their new 10x coolant is also ok. Their OET is probably OK.



I could very well be wrong, but isnt Dexcool currently used in GM, Ford and now Chrysler? (I realize the FCA stuff similar, yet a different formulation.

These Dexcool issues you speak of are 20 years old and that was from subpar gaskets.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by Warstud
Keep it simple : Either use OEM or the cheaper aftermarket Zerex or Peak AF specified for your vehicle.


I do OEM or approved … and sometimes I'm just doing a partial change if the coolant looks mint … but seems to be a noticeable cost delta between Motorcraft vs Dexcool products

That gasket comment is old news … and I'm a long term GM buyer yet to have my 1st coolant issue

 

[N Heat]

Originally Posted by dlundblad
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
You can use Zerex Asian with no problem

You want to avoid anything with 2-EHA, which is a plasticizer that eats gaskets

That is Dexcool's key ingredient and the reason it's called Deathcool

Most "all makes all models" coolants have 2-EHA, including all of Prestone's (even the ones labeled for Honda/Toyota/European, in th elittle half-gallon bottle at Walmart)

Peak Global Lifetime is safe. Their new 10x coolant is also ok. Their OET is probably OK.





These Dexcool issues you speak of are 20 years old and that was from subpar gaskets.


That kinda what prompted me to ask the question in the OP. Is the gasket attack issue just a carry over feeling from years ago or does anyone have recent documented issues of 2hea eating gaskets? I dumped the dexcool in my 5.3 in 2005 and have drained/filled every 3 years with the ST universal. The factory water pump started weeping a few years ago at 210k. Id say thats pretty good performance.

 

[dlundblad]

I'm sure a lot of it also stems from people not paying attention to the "use only dex cool" sticker under the hood and using traditional green when topping off, doing cooling system repair etc.

 

[RevelationLion]

When researching the new Prestone Platinum extended life antifreeze (15 years, 350,000 miles guarantee), I became concerned when reading about the pitfalls of 2-EHA in the Super Tech extended life antifreeze (5 years, 150,000 guarantee) that I have used for 11 years. But for the record, I have never had an issue using this antifreeze/coolant in 2 cars over this period of time. I like it because it's free of phosphate, borates, nitrites, silicates, and amines.

 

[Revving2Redline]

I have forever been using the blue Valvoline made Zerex. was never a fan of Valvoline but I've never had any trouble with the blue coolant. I just take it up to the Honda dealership when I have my coolant done every 30,000 miles for a drain infill. I got three jugs of it for next to nothing.

 

[JGmazda]

This dozens of coolant formulations can be maddening for sure. I changed-out the gaskets on my 2001 LeSabre and flushed/filled with PEAK 10X.

Why? I figured why take the chance again? Plus, it simplified my maintenance products. I use it in all my vehicles. Do I think "Death Cool" is bad (2EHA)...?

Yeah, I do. A known plasticizer can't be good for my 2001, why use it if there are alternatives? Anyhow, that's what I do.

 

[Plawan]

I don’t believe the DEXcool thing was ever that significant in reality. The hyped up drama surrounding it was big 4 sure.
Anyway 2-eha is still wildly used.
Being poured into everything with wheels and universal coolants for years now by millions of folks having no idea that 2-eha exists. No vehicle apocalypse. I think we could probably move on now.