Premium vs. Budget Snow tires

[Smokescreen]

I have had Blizzaks and Xices and Hakkas. I have chosen Altimax Arctic 12 for its price/performance.

But...lets be real here, in the winter those that are looking to have great winter handling and slicing lap times are in the less than 1% and they deserve to pay the upmost dollar for performance. The rest of us that have winter tires are just trying to avoid being hit by idiots who don't adjust their driving styles or those that don't even have winter tires and .... so we make it to our destination without incident.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by edyvw

Quote
Maybe, but will it do 3x better? Keeping in mind you can buy 3 sets of the Burmese tires for the price of one set of the Nokians, the Burmese rubber could wear out more quickly and still come out ahead.

Personally, I wouldn't run either. I avoid ultra low priced tires like the plague mostly due to ethical issues (Myanmar, for example, is not a country known for just treatment of their people) but I also think you do hit a point of diminishing returns, where you spend a lot more to get only a little more. My snow tires are profoundly middle of the road, and while you can do all sorts of insturmented tests showing that, say, Michelins are better, at the end of the day mine have never failed to get me into my driveway, so why spend more?

Personally I do not like to say tire is 3X better than some other tire or 2X better. In my vocabulary, if tire has better braking in wet and handling, it is simply better and I will pay for that price. It is the MOST important safety feature on the vehicle.
Now, I do not think Nokian is worth of money. Absolutely not, nor I consider them top tier manufacturer on par with Michelin, Continental, Bridgestone. I have their R2 on my wife's Tiguan now. I paid $167 per tire in 215/65 R16 size, which is ridiculously expensive for that size (Xi3 was $112, and WS80 was $115). But, i wanted to check it. They performed brilliantly in deep snow and are very good in ice. But in every other category they are mediocre at best and in wet they are plain scary. On top of that, performance deterioration is faster than on previous winter tires she had, Blizzak's WS70.
So I agree about price and value of Nokian's comapred to Michelin's etc. But, if only these two from video were available for purchase, I would go Nokian in heartbeat.


So...with your experience of the overpriced Nokians being mostly mediocre and "scary" on wet roads (quite important for a winter tire), you would still pay a premium for them? Ye. Gods.

 

[NewEnglander]

No beating Nokian in the snow.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by edyvw

Quote
Maybe, but will it do 3x better? Keeping in mind you can buy 3 sets of the Burmese tires for the price of one set of the Nokians, the Burmese rubber could wear out more quickly and still come out ahead.

Personally, I wouldn't run either. I avoid ultra low priced tires like the plague mostly due to ethical issues (Myanmar, for example, is not a country known for just treatment of their people) but I also think you do hit a point of diminishing returns, where you spend a lot more to get only a little more. My snow tires are profoundly middle of the road, and while you can do all sorts of insturmented tests showing that, say, Michelins are better, at the end of the day mine have never failed to get me into my driveway, so why spend more?

Personally I do not like to say tire is 3X better than some other tire or 2X better. In my vocabulary, if tire has better braking in wet and handling, it is simply better and I will pay for that price. It is the MOST important safety feature on the vehicle.
Now, I do not think Nokian is worth of money. Absolutely not, nor I consider them top tier manufacturer on par with Michelin, Continental, Bridgestone. I have their R2 on my wife's Tiguan now. I paid $167 per tire in 215/65 R16 size, which is ridiculously expensive for that size (Xi3 was $112, and WS80 was $115). But, i wanted to check it. They performed brilliantly in deep snow and are very good in ice. But in every other category they are mediocre at best and in wet they are plain scary. On top of that, performance deterioration is faster than on previous winter tires she had, Blizzak's WS70.
So I agree about price and value of Nokian's comapred to Michelin's etc. But, if only these two from video were available for purchase, I would go Nokian in heartbeat.


So...with your experience of the overpriced Nokians being mostly mediocre and "scary" on wet roads (quite important for a winter tire), you would still pay a premium for them? Ye. Gods.

Compared to Tristar? Yes. If I had only those tires as option, I would go Nokian.
I am fairly confident Noakian is going to perform second season much better than Tristar, or third season.

 

[JTK]

Having owned Blizzaks, Firestone Winterforce and GT Radial Champiro snow tires, aside from price, the only difference between them for me was noise. Blizzaks were the most expensive, but the quietest. Winterforces are loud, as were the GT Radials. They were all fantastic for winter time conditions.

 

[Bighorn2500]

I'd still take the budget snows over all seasons or all terrains any day of the week during the winter. Personally can't justify the price of the premium tires, I've run Cooper and Hercules brand snow tires for years with confidence. If you drive for the conditions you don't have issues and get from A to B safely.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by Bighorn2500
I'd still take the budget snows over all seasons or all terrains any day of the week during the winter. Personally can't justify the price of the premium tires, I've run Cooper and Hercules brand snow tires for years with confidence. If you drive for the conditions you don't have issues and get from A to B safely.


Cooper makes a fine tire, and you can do quite a bit worse than Hercules. IIRC Cooper owns Hercules, and while they can be all over (some are jobber tires they contract out) they make at least a few models I know of that are pretty good.

Fun fact: Hercules bought the old molding and contracted Nokian's Russian factory to make snow tires for them for a while. They were identical to Nokian Hakka Rs but considerably less expensive. Unfortunately, they stopped selling them, which I've heard was due to the sanctions on Russia, but I may be mistaken there.

Originally Posted by JTK
Having owned Blizzaks, Firestone Winterforce and GT Radial Champiro snow tires, aside from price, the only difference between them for me was noise. Blizzaks were the most expensive, but the quietest. Winterforces are loud, as were the GT Radials. They were all fantastic for winter time conditions.


I haven't had much experience with the GTs, no one sells them here for some reason, but the loudest snow tire I've ever heard was the Winterforce. Even unstudded those things roared. The performance was pretty good, though, and the price was right, so they still sold a ton of them.

Really, the ultimate lede for anything snow tire related which I think is unfortunately buried by the tire dealers is that ANY 3PMSF tire is better than ANY all season in winter. Even the most garbage, made in [censored] Myanmar by slave children tire, as long as it has that little mountain snowflake, it will outperform an all season when it comes time.

 

[krzyss]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
... ANY 3PMSF tire is better than ANY all season in winter. Even the most garbage, made in [censored] Myanmar by slave children tire, as long as it has that little mountain snowflake, it will outperform an all season when it comes time.



Do you really think that people who abuse others care if their tires meet 3MPS standard?
What prevents them from marking it on the sidewall without passing the test?

KrzyÅ›

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by krzyss
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
... ANY 3PMSF tire is better than ANY all season in winter. Even the most garbage, made in [censored] Myanmar by slave children tire, as long as it has that little mountain snowflake, it will outperform an all season when it comes time.



Do you really think that people who abuse others care if their tires meet 3MPS standard?
What prevents them from marking it on the sidewall without passing the test?

KrzyÅ›


Laws.

The US may still be the wild west, but in Canada and the EU at least, the government regulates these sort of things.

I wouldn't buy a tire I've never heard of, because hey, it might be a scam, but if you buy from a major tire company they have WAY too much to lose to ever fake it.