Which 508.00 oil would you choose?

[paoester]

The Castrol VW 508 ordered from ECS Tuning is about $10 per quart, and Total 508 from rmeuropean.com is $8 per quart, not too much difference I suppose. Certaily Total is the bargain one. ..---
Mobil1 X2 ESP 0w20 is $11 per quart from SunCoastParts.com but it has more certifications, probably the most tested and proven oil there is in that category. German and dexosD specs combined. My favorite on paper.

That antimony in Total probably is some extra additive put in to get it to pass the tough 508 wear tests. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729162 , even in the small 4 ppm amount, doing something good.

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by BrandonT
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
My choice would always be
Castrol EDGE Professional LL IV FE 0W20 VW 508 00/509 00.


Why


I have used this oil.
10k mile OCI's.
40k total miles.
The confidence is there, if not specific data.
And I would not hesitate to pay the $2/qt over Total.

 

[BrandonT]

Originally Posted by paoester
The Castrol VW 508 ordered from ECS Tuning is about $10 per quart, and Total 508 from rmeuropean.com is $8 per quart, not too much difference I suppose. Certaily Total is the bargain one. ..---
Mobil1 X2 ESP 0w20 is $11 per quart from SunCoastParts.com but it has more certifications, probably the most tested and proven oil there is in that category. German and dexosD specs combined. My favorite on paper.

That antimony in Total probably is some extra additive put in to get it to pass the tough 508 wear tests. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729162 , even in the small 4 ppm amount, doing something good.


Thanks for the Antimony link, very interesting! So maybe the addition is intentional.

 

[paoester]

Originally Posted by BrandonT
Thanks for the Antimony link, very interesting! So maybe the addition is intentional.
When I see an additive in small amounts in an oil, it makes me think this storyline played out in 2017 at Total:
1. We need a 508 oil here at Total.
2. We already have an ACEA C5 oil that can meet it, maybe. Run the tests!
3. The existing oil couldn't pass the more stringent wear tests and anti-oxidative longevity needed.
4. Let's make it all-PAO and add in a little antimony, and, wallah, VW 508 is met. Job done. Tweaked an existing product.

 

[BrandonT]

Motul results in. Was hoping for more in the way of Boron and Moly. The highend Mobil 1 oils seem to be using a lot so if anyone finds a source for the new ESP X2 0W20 let me know.

 

[paoester]

BrandonT, thanks for the VOAs!

A little odd how all three have so little silicon anti-foam additive, about 1/3 the normal amount seen in other 0w-20 oils. This could be a clue to an oil formulator with deep experience as to how much ester is being used, or some other inference. What about an oil makes foaming better or worse?

And no moly is just strange. Compared to Japanese 0w20 oils that use around 500 ppm moly, the european VW 508 approach is radically different. I guess polymer esters here? That would replace moly, and might result in less WPD (ring deposits). It is just too complicated to make any conclusions based on knowing the VOA. Could be just looking at the longest list of engine tests wins. (Mobil1 ESP 0w20 by far then.)

You could decide based on which ones are all-PAO:
Total, Motul, and LiquiMoly 508's are PAO. Castrol & Mobil are only part PAO.

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by BrandonT
Motul results in. Was hoping for more in the way of Boron and Moly. The highend Mobil 1 oils seem to be using a lot so if anyone finds a source for the new ESP X2 0W20 let me know.

HTHS ?

Viscosity 100 degrees C 8.0.

Trace of magnesium.
Plenty of calcium.
Slightly reduced phosphorus.
Duly noted.

paoester must be spot on about these base stocks.
Username fits, although he uses GTL in his Tiquan.

Thank you BrandonT !

 

[paoester]

One cool (actually COLD) fact about the Total is it's -86F pourpoint. Indicates very pure PAO. That might be a new record.

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
HTHS ?
VW 508 specs minimum 2.6. I did notice Ravenol VSE 0w20 (508) is 2.73, which is probably about the highest you would find in a 508 group due to fuel economy improvement standards. Typical for about all 0w20's.

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
paoester must be spot on about these base stocks.
Safety Data Sheets are approximate. Close enough usually.
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
although he uses GTL in his Tiquan.
Guilty as charged. Left-over stash, used for a while during breakin. It is dexos1, which is almost good enough compared to VW 508, and passes the GM turbo coking tests among others for the turbo engine in the Tiguan. Group3+ GTL isn't bad at all with Shell-Infineum anti-ox etc. to prop it up.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by paoester
One cool (actually COLD) fact about the Total is it's -86F pourpoint. Indicates very pure PAO. That might be a new record.

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
HTHS ?
VW 508 specs minimum 2.6. I did notice Ravenol VSE 0w20 (508) is 2.73, which is probably about the highest you would find in a 508 group due to fuel economy improvement standards. Typical for about all 0w20's.

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
paoester must be spot on about these base stocks.
Safety Data Sheets are approximate. Close enough usually.
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
although he uses GTL in his Tiquan.
Guilty as charged. Left-over stash, used for a while during breakin. It is dexos1, which is almost good enough compared to VW 508, and passes the GM turbo coking tests among others for the turbo engine in the Tiguan. Group3+ GTL isn't bad at all with Shell-Infineum anti-ox etc. to prop it up.

Older Motul oils had more than 50% PAO, yet pour point was around -39 to -42.

 

[paoester]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Older Motul oils had more than 50% PAO, yet pour point was around -39 to -42.
Current Motul 508 0w-20 is all or close to all PAO, PP = -62F (-52C).
It depends on what year Motul, and which among the dozens of Motul oils you are looking at. Kinda matters. It varies.

 

[spiderbypass]

If you have a vehicle like my wife's 2015 Honda Accord; would a 508.00 specifies oil be one of not the highest quality of 0w20 you could run in vehicles requiring a 0w20 oil?

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by spiderbypass
If you have a vehicle like my wife's 2015 Honda Accord; would a 508.00 specifies oil be one of not the highest quality of 0w20 you could run in vehicles requiring a 0w20 oil?


I am convinced that Ravenol EFE 0W16 is the answer.

 

[BrandonT]

I thought 0W16 is not, and will never be, back compatible and vice versa with 0W20 or anything else? Thought that was part of the spec.

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by BrandonT
I thought 0W16 is not, and will never be, back compatible and vice versa with 0W20 or anything else? Thought that was part of the spec.


Per Ravenol, this oil can be subbed in when 0W20 and 5W20 is spec'd.

I am not a NOACK troglodyte,
but the astoundingly low NOACK in an oil of this grade,
the base stocks,
and the density,
convince me that this is a mighty fine oil.

Price is prohibitive without extended OCI's.

 

[paoester]

Originally Posted by spiderbypass
If you have a vehicle like my wife's 2015 Honda Accord; would a 508.00 specifies oil be one of not the highest quality of 0w20 you could run in vehicles requiring a 0w20 oil?
VW 508 is the highest performance spec for a 0w20 on the planet. That said, I'd bet you can get close to it with Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20 which is all-PAO.

 

[aleneros]

Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by spiderbypass
If you have a vehicle like my wife's 2015 Honda Accord; would a 508.00 specifies oil be one of not the highest quality of 0w20 you could run in vehicles requiring a 0w20 oil?
VW 508 is the highest performance spec for a 0w20 on the planet. That said, I'd bet you can get close to it with Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20 which is all-PAO.



Yes, almost all of it is PAO.
See below:

 

[paoester]

Originally Posted by aleneros
Yes, almost all of it is PAO.
Base oil is around 80% of a motor oil, the rest is the additive package dissolved in Group2,3, etc. If M1 AP 0w20 is 65% PAO, divide by 0.8 to get 81% of the base oil is PAO. That's higher than any other SN GF-5 dexos1 at walmart anyway except its cousin M1 EP is about the same. (M1 AP non-0w20 weights use much more Group3).
Is that easy to get in Taiwan? Availability around the world is a function of a lot of market forces.

 

[aleneros]

Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by aleneros
Yes, almost all of it is PAO.
Base oil is around 80% of a motor oil, the rest is the additive package dissolved in Group2,3, etc. If M1 AP 0w20 is 65% PAO, divide by 0.8 to get 81% of the base oil is PAO. That's higher than any other SN GF-5 dexos1 at walmart anyway except its cousin M1 EP is about the same. (M1 AP non-0w20 weights use much more Group3).
Is that easy to get in Taiwan? Availability around the world is a function of a lot of market forces.



Nope, no M1 AP series found so far on the market.
But (thanks to oil import trader) we do have others like: M1 EP/ESP/ESPx2/FS,

Plenty of exotic flavor choices like: Germany (Ravenol, LiquiMoly, etc.), USA (Redline, Amsoil, etc.) , France(Motul) UK (Castrol) etc. lol

 

[MParr]

Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by spiderbypass
If you have a vehicle like my wife's 2015 Honda Accord; would a 508.00 specifies oil be one of not the highest quality of 0w20 you could run in vehicles requiring a 0w20 oil?
VW 508 is the highest performance spec for a 0w20 on the planet. That said, I'd bet you can get close to it with Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20 which is all-PAO.

paoester
I noticed in your signature that you own a 2019 Tiguan. Yet, you are running Pennzoil Platinum 0W20. Is there any reason for your doing so? I am a little shy about running just any old 0W20 in my Tiguan. Sure, VW specs 508/509 oil. For my first oil change, I opted for a 504/507 oil. Help me out here.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by MParr
Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by spiderbypass
If you have a vehicle like my wife's 2015 Honda Accord; would a 508.00 specifies oil be one of not the highest quality of 0w20 you could run in vehicles requiring a 0w20 oil?
VW 508 is the highest performance spec for a 0w20 on the planet. That said, I'd bet you can get close to it with Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20 which is all-PAO.

paoester
I noticed in your signature that you own a 2019 Tiguan. Yet, you are running Pennzoil Platinum 0W20. Is there any reason for your doing so? I am a little shy about running just any old 0W20 in my Tiguan. Sure, VW specs 508/509 oil. For my first oil change, I opted for a 504/507 oil. Help me out here.

I would run same.