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Re: Who's used 0w-16 in something that doesn't spec it? [Re: Ifixyawata] #5265833 11/13/19 09:32 AM
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aquariuscsm Offline
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Originally Posted by Ifixyawata
Originally Posted by painfx
No point going any lower than what manufacturers calls for.


Nor is there any point in going higher.


It depends what you’re after. Multi-vis fsms state to use thinner oils for fuel economy and state to use thicker oils for extended high speeds,racing,towing,hot climates,etc. It’s all a give and take.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 0W20

Re: Who's used 0w-16 in something that doesn't spec it? [Re: kschachn] #5265878 11/13/19 10:13 AM
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tig1 Offline
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by jayg
Originally Posted by tig1
But in the late 70's I used M1 5-20 in my engine calling for 10-40. Worked very well for 100K OCI.
I know. We all know. You’ve posted that exact post how many times for how many years?

And he also knows that the grade designation vs. the HTHS was different then.

But not by much compared to the 10-40 Valvoline I was using, and you should have known that. Really you should have. thankyou


2007 Ford Fusion 250,000 miles
M1 5-20HM
2017 Ford Fusion 83K
M1 0-20EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and M1 ATF LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Who's used 0w-16 in something that doesn't spec it? [Re: jqgz] #5265978 11/13/19 11:35 AM
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DGXR Offline
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So we have:
"The engineers who designed the vehicle know best... use the oil recommended by the manufacturer"
and
"Manufacturers must meet cafe standards which means running the thinnest oil that will allow the engine to survive the warranty period."

This seems to be confirmed by manufacturers now recommending thinner oils in the exact same engine. My Tacoma 2.7 is just one good example: from 2003-2009 the oil spec for this motor was 5w30 but beginning in 2010 the spec changed to 0w/5w20. This engine had with VVT-i (intake only) from the start, and began dual VVT-i in 2015 so that had no bearing on the change in 2010.

So are these statements in disagreement? What is the truth? This question has been asked before I am sure, maybe someone can provide a link. Thanks


1995 Corvette coupe LT1 6-speed
2006 Tacoma 2.7 Base SR5 AC
1999 Yamaha YZ400FL
2003 Honda XR400R
Re: Who's used 0w-16 in something that doesn't spec it? [Re: Ifixyawata] #5266042 11/13/19 12:28 PM
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geeman789 Offline
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Originally Posted by Ifixyawata
Originally Posted by painfx
No point going any lower than what manufacturers calls for.


Nor is there any point in going higher.


Oil viscosity is heat dependent. Manage oil temperatures effectively, and a thinner grade oil works fine. Let oil temperatures get too hot, and a thicker oil will be needed.

0w16 oil is about 7.2 cSt at 100*c., and 8.7 cSt at 90*C.

And, for example, M1 5w20 is about 8.9 cSt at 100*C. But at 90*C, it is about 11.0 cSt. However, at 110*C, viscosity drops to about 7.3 cSt., and at 120*C viscosity is getting low at 6.1 cSt.

M1 5w30 at 100*C is about 11.0 cSt, the same as the 5w20 is at 90*c. At 110*C viscosity falls to 9.0 cSt.

And, M1 5W40 FM is at about 8.9 cSt at 120*C, the same as the 5w20 is at 100*C.


So, one can see that all the viscosity grades overlap, depending on temperature.

A 16 grade at 90*C is about the same as a 20 grade at 100*C, which is about the same as a 30 grade at 110*C, or a 40 grade at 120*C


2011 SUBARU Impreza 5-door manual / 2016 HONDA Pilot / 2011 MAZDA 2 auto
Re: Who's used 0w-16 in something that doesn't spec it? [Re: jqgz] #5266077 11/13/19 01:13 PM
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Panos Offline
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geeman789 thumbsup


Ford Fiesta 1.6 '05 - Motul specific 913D/Motul Gear 300 180K+ Kms
Kawasaki Ninja 250R '08 - Shell Advance Ultra 4T 10w40 75K+ Kms
Honda CBR600F pc41 '14 - Motul 7100 10w30 25K+ Kms
Re: Who's used 0w-16 in something that doesn't spec it? [Re: jqgz] #5266274 11/13/19 05:39 PM
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Agreed Panos.
Great post by geeman789.
This illustrates what Toyota/Lexus is doing with my vehicle in specing 0W16.
The engine temperature is regulated by, for example, an electronically controlled thermostat.
My Lexus UX 250h F-Sport gets up to operating temperature real fast, and does not get too hot at all.

Also let me add this. I happened to purchase a PriusC the very day Ravenol came to market in North America with EFE 0W16. My vehicle , although spec'd for 0W20, was a prime candidate for using this oil. I quickly gravitated towards Ravenol EFE 0W16. There were several OCI's consisting of 10-12k mile intervals. I found this oil to be stellar, although I do not have any data. It is very expensive but if extended OCI's are appropriate, it might just be worth it.

Shannow, who knows a thing or two about lubrication, has said that he would prefer this oil to Japanese style 0w20 oils. The Japanese style thin oils, such as Idemitsu, High Moly Mazda, TGMO, and Eneos, go for high viscosity index, and often have lots of organic moly, in addition to the high dose VII's. The Ravenol uses 2x Mobil1 dosage of tri nuclear moly, as well as other organic friction modifiers. VII's are minimal. Ravenol base stocks are PAO+ Group V vs Group III for the typical Japanese style 0W16 oils. Ravenol even states that their oil is suitable for applications where 0W20 and 5w20 oils are spec'd. The EFE 0W16 tests quite favorably vs 5W30 oils, too.

Warning however.
As stated, GF-6B oils will not be backward compatible.
Thickies will still have their day.


Lexus UX 250h F-Sport
Pennzoil Hybrid 0W16

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