Boat question, but not lubrication related

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OVERKILL

OVERKILL

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So, we have two mid-90's boats:

1. Boat 1 is a Supra with a SEFI fuel injected 351W (PCM GT-40)
2. Boat 2 is a Four Winns with a 2BBL carbureted 302 (Volvo Penta 5.0L FL)

Having grown up with carb'd boats, many of which were antique, I'm quite "over" their quirkiness. The big fuellie Windsor just fires up and runs like a Swiss watch. Every time. The Four Winns is idling high and will need some attention in the spring.

Trying to source a Ford SEFI marine injection setup (EEC-IV) I expect will prove to be extremely difficult, so I've been considering something like a Holley bolt-on kit, such as:

1. Holley Avenger 2BBL kit

Or the more reasonably priced:
2. Holley Sniper EFI self-tuning kit
Paired with this dizzy:
Holley Sniper EFI distributor SBF (302/289)

I'm leaning towards the Sniper system for obvious reasons (cost) but my concern with either system is installing the oxygen sensor, which the Ford system on the PCM mill doesn't have.

Anybody have any experience putting one of these kits on a stern-drive (I/O)?
 
My boat has a 4bbl 600 Holley on it and runs great. Generally speaking, the 4bbls are easier to tune like you want on a boat since the rear barrels aren't used unless under load. Perhaps consider finding a 4bbl cast iron intake and 4bbls carb setup?

I would ensure that the TB kits you are looking at do not require an aluminium intake manifold unless they are strictly fresh water boats.
 
Yes, they are strictly fresh water boats. My dad knows zero about carbs and this is his boat, so I'm the one who always has to fix it. Thus, converting it to fuellie so it just "works" is the plan here. I have no intention on keeping it carbureted.
 
Originally Posted by Donald
You will spend quite a lot to accomplish what you want to do with EFI.


Yep, unfortunately. If I could find a Ford EEC-IV marine setup I'd be set, but the odds of finding one are pretty slim
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted by Donald
Send the carb to Tredwell in Tredwell NY. They will rebuild it and then no issues.


Until it sits with gas in it for a month because my parents can't make it to the cottage and it needs to be sent off again because it got gummed up. As I said, I have no intention of keeping the boat carbureted, the big Windsor sat for 5 years and fired up like it was run yesterday, that's what we want with the Four Winns, hence the conversion.
 
Um...none of those kits will work without extensive exhaust work!!!!

All of the self learning FI systems require a wide-band O2 sensor to monitor exhaust gas. With a wet exhaust, they aren't just "plug and play". You have to find a way to get the O2 sensor installed in the path of the exhaust before the water jacket dumps into the path. This usually means a specific exhaust manifold or spacer to get this done. Most parts on the market today to get this accomplished are all Chevy based components...so it may be very tough to get what you need.

If you use a fuel stabilizer and alcohol free fuel, the carb. can be just as reliable.
 
Yeah there may be something wrong with the fuel or the tank. My 4.3 Chevy Mercruiser sets all winter. I use Seafoam to preserve the fuel and it starts right up in the spring. It can set for 6 months at a time. One month won't turn the fuel bad.
 
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Um...none of those kits will work without extensive exhaust work!!!!

All of the self learning FI systems require a wide-band O2 sensor to monitor exhaust gas. With a wet exhaust, they aren't just "plug and play". You have to find a way to get the O2 sensor installed in the path of the exhaust before the water jacket dumps into the path. This usually means a specific exhaust manifold or spacer to get this done. Most parts on the market today to get this accomplished are all Chevy based components...so it may be very tough to get what you need.

If you use a fuel stabilizer and alcohol free fuel, the carb. can be just as reliable.


That was my primary concern, getting the O2 into the exhaust stream before the water. The EEC-IV setup just runs in open loop all the time.
 
If you are bent on the conversion, I would suggest going over to offshoreonly.com and do some digging around over there (dig first before posting). There is tons of info. on using those types of kits in a marine application. I know because I was considering the conversion on an engine I built for one of my boats a few years ago. I ended up going with an Edlebrock marine specific carb, with matching Edelbrock intake, using fuel stabilizer and ethanol free fuel, and never had an issue...even with the boat sitting for months over winter.

If you want to make the carb engine perform like a FI engine, simply add a low pressure electronic fuel pump...makes starting MUCH easier, even after it sits for months.
https://www.holley.com/products/fue...bureted_electric_fuel_pumps/parts/12-427
 
I did the electric fuel pump conversion on a previous boat we owned, a mid 70's Glastron a few years ago. Definitely helped with the cold starts. Also had an electric pump on the built 312 Interceptor we had, dressed with dual Carter side-drafts. Heck, we even put one on a 1945 Chris-Craft sedan with the original flathead I6.

I've been around boats my whole life, and spent probably every single summer for 20 years wrenching on them. My concern isn't me being able to fix the carb issues, it's getting a call from my dad when I'm out of the country that the engine is flooding itself because the float stuck (ethanol, he brings up gas from the city) or something else and he can't fix it and he's too cheap to deal with the marina, so he'll do without until I'm back. Or, the idle will get low and it'll stall-out in reverse coming into the dock....etc. All those little quirks that a carb'd setup can do that we don't experience with the injected engine.

That's the reason I'm looking at doing this project, it's not for my benefit, I don't drive that boat, I primarily drive the Supra or the tinner, it's for his, as he and my mom are the primary operators, are getting on in their age, and it really just needs to be turnkey with his usage habits considered as part of the solution.

As I noted earlier, an ideal setup would be a salvaged EEC-IV config off another fuellie boat, as that would just "work", and I'm very familiar with EEC-IV.
 
Then your best bet is to find a riser spacer with an O2 bung welded in to make this whole thing easier. Be sure to make sure you have clearance above the riser today!

https://www.hardin-marine.com/p-104396-o2-spacer-stock-mercury-riser.aspx

or

http://www.wagsengineering.com/oxygen-sensor-spacer/

will add a couple hundred bucks to the project, but accomplish what you need with little headache. This was not an option on my project as I did not have the room.

...and I understand you need a system that will learn...but then be able to stop learning, as even with a riser spacer the O2 sensors will have a much shorter lifespan in this type of application.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Then your best bet is to find a riser spacer with an O2 bung welded in to make this whole thing easier. Be sure to make sure you have clearance above the riser today!

https://www.hardin-marine.com/p-104396-o2-spacer-stock-mercury-riser.aspx

or

http://www.wagsengineering.com/oxygen-sensor-spacer/

will add a couple hundred bucks to the project, but accomplish what you need with little headache. This was not an option on my project as I did not have the room.

...and I understand you need a system that will learn...but then be able to stop learning, as even with a riser spacer the O2 sensors will have a much shorter lifespan in this type of application.


Thanks for your help! Really appreciate it
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Then your best bet is to find a riser spacer with an O2 bung welded in to make this whole thing easier. Be sure to make sure you have clearance above the riser today!

https://www.hardin-marine.com/p-104396-o2-spacer-stock-mercury-riser.aspx

or

http://www.wagsengineering.com/oxygen-sensor-spacer/

will add a couple hundred bucks to the project, but accomplish what you need with little headache. This was not an option on my project as I did not have the room.

...and I understand you need a system that will learn...but then be able to stop learning, as even with a riser spacer the O2 sensors will have a much shorter lifespan in this type of application.


Thanks for your help! Really appreciate it
thumbsup2.gif



My pleasure, happy to help.
Please also realize you will need new tubing/joints to get the exhaust back out of the boat. Usually this is just a slightly longer coupling from the riser to the Y-pipe...but just another thing to think about.
 
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Then your best bet is to find a riser spacer with an O2 bung welded in to make this whole thing easier. Be sure to make sure you have clearance above the riser today!

https://www.hardin-marine.com/p-104396-o2-spacer-stock-mercury-riser.aspx

or

http://www.wagsengineering.com/oxygen-sensor-spacer/

will add a couple hundred bucks to the project, but accomplish what you need with little headache. This was not an option on my project as I did not have the room.

...and I understand you need a system that will learn...but then be able to stop learning, as even with a riser spacer the O2 sensors will have a much shorter lifespan in this type of application.


Thanks for your help! Really appreciate it
thumbsup2.gif



My pleasure, happy to help.
Please also realize you will need new tubing/joints to get the exhaust back out of the boat. Usually this is just a slightly longer coupling from the riser to the Y-pipe...but just another thing to think about.


Yes, which means I won't be doing this project until next summer most likely. Boat is headed to get wrapped here shortly and will sit for the winter.

I've still gotta get the drive put back in the Supra and a new fuel sender installed before it can get wrapped up
crazy2.gif
The fun with boats never ends! The PCM drive is pressure lubed and takes ATF and it was leaking pretty bad last summer (I know this is a bit of a tangent here) so I pulled it when the boat went in for some fibreglass work in the bilge (there was a thread about that on here actually). That's been addressed (local guy does amazing work) and I sent the drive with my son to his co-op so my buddy could press out the old input shaft seal. As I noted earlier, this boat (the Supra, not the Four Winns) sat for 5 years and apparently that led to some pitting on the input shaft, so then I had to order a speedy sleeve. I ordered two new seals (just in case) from the UK (Viton, OE was butyl) and I'm just waiting to get the drive back now so I can re-install. The fuel gauge hasn't worked since we got it, gauge itself tests OK, so ordered a Centroid replacement sender for it, which had to come from Florida
lol.gif


This is all on top of having to replace the rotted-out OE fibreglass mufflers that were leaking water when we got it. But we got a screamin' deal on the boat, which had wickedly low hours, so putting a bit of money into it to get it back to 100% was not an issue.
 
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