Colorado updated traction law for I-70 and messes it up

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If you drive in snow, once you buy a set of good winter tires you become an obnoxious evangelist that no one ever seems to acknowledge. I have a friend who has a daughter that needed something better than her Honda Accord to drive to and from work here in the Milwaukee area. I told him and her that if she just got a set of good winter tires she would be golden compared to anything else with all-season tires. She wouldn't listen and instead bought a new Toyota 4Runner that has all-season tires. The end result is that my old BMW with decent winter tires can run circles around that vehicle in heavy snow.

Another example is my mother-in-law that thinks her pickup truck with big knobby off-road tires is "excellent" in the snow....
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
I recently had a conversation with a co-worker about winter tires. Who drives an AWD SUV . Who DOES NOT need winter tires, well, because his SUV is all wheel drive. And, he was kind enough to point out that the " S " in the M+S designation on all season tires ACTUALLY stands for SNOW.

I pointed out to him that awd DOES get you moving quite well, but does NOTHING when you try and stop or turn ... only the tires stop or turn. And that the M+S designation means only that the tires have a tread pattern that meets a broad specification regarding tread to void ratio. NOT that the tires are actually GOOD in snow. His eyes glazed over ...

He said I'm not wasting my $ on tires I don't need. That's why I bought an SUV ...

This individual is well educated, well compensated and generally a pretty smart guy. But, like so many other drivers, he will not be bothered to learn anything about tires.


I drive a manual transmission Subaru with 50/50 split all wheel drive, and use premium winter tires. The car is a TANK in snow, fantastic traction, beautifully balanced handling ... you can steer with the steering wheel OR the gas pedal. VERY FUN to drive in the winter !

Yes, edyvw, just a typical SUBARU driver here ... ! Or, maybe, NOT.
lol.gif


Which is great ... but more and more I worry about THE OTHER GUY, that guy like my co-worker, who just doesn't get it, and probably never will, but THINKS he is invincible because he drives an AWD something.

No you are not typical Subaru driver. I have a lot of friends that ski with me that have Subaru's with snow tires. But amount of people who get Subaru just bcs. it has AWD and that will solve their issue in winter far exceeds drivers like you.
Not only that, Subaru for example targets precisely those kind of people in their commercials here in CO.
Case in point: We had unusual snow storm two weeks ago where temperatures dropped below -15c. There is one road here that has 14% grade, and it was absolute mess. So local TV crew interviews people who had issue stopping, and one older lady says: I was not ready for this. I think next year I might get myself AWD vehicle.
So her solution for problem on slick roads going downhill is AWD.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Case in point: We had unusual snow storm two weeks ago where temperatures dropped below -15c. There is one road here that has 14% grade, and it was absolute mess. So local TV crew interviews people who had issue stopping, and one older lady says: I was not ready for this. I think next year I might get myself AWD vehicle.
So her solution for problem on slick roads going downhill is AWD.

So you got the potential Subie owners on the -15C, 14% grade situation.
Congratulations.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw


Not only that, Subaru for example targets precisely those kind of people in their commercials here in CO.



ALL car dealers are part of the problem. Ask a salesman about all wheel drive, and he / she will tell you that with all wheel drive, you can pretty much drive ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, without worry. You will NEVER, EVER get stuck ...

If he mentions that MAYBE winter tires are a good idea too, people get defensive, thinking he is just trying to SELL them more stuff ...

Having owned AWD vehicles for almost 10 years now, I tell people this ...

All wheel drive will launch you INTO trouble, not keep you OUT of trouble. You NEED good tires, because all wheel drive gets you moving really well. Too well sometimes ...

Getting stuck rarely kills you. It sucks, and is inconvenient, and to some people is SO EMBARRASSING ... but it rarely kills you.

Losing control on an icy highway, or sliding thru that snowy intersection could very well kill you. Good TIRES help keep that from happening, not all wheel drive.
 
More Government screw up stuff ... this from the Canadian province of B.C., who recently put in winter tire laws for some mountain roads in B.C.

They state ...

Winter tires are required on most highways in B.C. between Oct. 1 and Apr. 30 (B.C. Ministry of Transportation)

Look for the snowflake or M+S.

Winter tires — sometimes called alpine or snow tires — are marked with a symbol of a snowflake inside a three-peaked mountain placed on the sidewall of the tire.

Mud and snow tires, marked with an M+S symbol, also qualify as winter tires, though the province notes they are less effective than dedicated alpine snow tires.

The Ministry of Transportation requires winter tires to have at least 3.5 millimetres of tread remaining. It requires at least two matching winter tires on the vehicle's drive axle, but recommends a matching set on all wheels.
 
Didn't you know that AWD on barely legal all season tires allows SUV drivers to ignore physics and common sense?

That's been true for years...

Now, Colorado has simply updated their policy to reflect this popular understanding...

27.gif
 
How do they enforce this specifically with out-of-state drivers ? The law should include wording like "vehicles registered in the state of CO". That's how Ohio has the wording for window tint, for example. While the police might not like 5% tint on a vehicle with Florida plates, they can't cite them for breaking Ohio's law (limited to 35%).
 
Ice and snow do not care where the car is registered.
Why should it matter for tire/traction devices law?

Krzys
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
How do they enforce this specifically with out-of-state drivers ? The law should include wording like "vehicles registered in the state of CO". That's how Ohio has the wording for window tint, for example. While the police might not like 5% tint on a vehicle with Florida plates, they can't cite them for breaking Ohio's law (limited to 35%).
I don't believe the tint thing is actually true. When you are in a different state you are subject to their laws. Depending on the statue of the state you are driving through, you could receive a ticket. Though most wouldn't ticket you for it.

Reading up on the police forums, you very well could be cited. At very least it is Probable Cause to be pulled over.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by edyvw


Not only that, Subaru for example targets precisely those kind of people in their commercials here in CO.



ALL car dealers are part of the problem. Ask a salesman about all wheel drive, and he / she will tell you that with all wheel drive, you can pretty much drive ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, without worry. You will NEVER, EVER get stuck ...

If he mentions that MAYBE winter tires are a good idea too, people get defensive, thinking he is just trying to SELL them more stuff ...

Having owned AWD vehicles for almost 10 years now, I tell people this ...

All wheel drive will launch you INTO trouble, not keep you OUT of trouble. You NEED good tires, because all wheel drive gets you moving really well. Too well sometimes ...

Getting stuck rarely kills you. It sucks, and is inconvenient, and to some people is SO EMBARRASSING ... but it rarely kills you.

Losing control on an icy highway, or sliding thru that snowy intersection could very well kill you. Good TIRES help keep that from happening, not all wheel drive.



I get that. I am talking about specific billboards like: Want to tackle Colorado winter? etc.
 
Originally Posted by Astro14
Didn't you know that AWD on barely legal all season tires allows SUV drivers to ignore physics and common sense?

That's been true for years...

Now, Colorado has simply updated their policy to reflect this popular understanding...

27.gif


lol.gif
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
How do they enforce this specifically with out-of-state drivers ? The law should include wording like "vehicles registered in the state of CO". That's how Ohio has the wording for window tint, for example. While the police might not like 5% tint on a vehicle with Florida plates, they can't cite them for breaking Ohio's law (limited to 35%).

Why would someone be exempt if they are out of state? I guess they will get same ticket.
 
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by edyvw
Case in point: We had unusual snow storm two weeks ago where temperatures dropped below -15c. There is one road here that has 14% grade, and it was absolute mess. So local TV crew interviews people who had issue stopping, and one older lady says: I was not ready for this. I think next year I might get myself AWD vehicle.
So her solution for problem on slick roads going downhill is AWD.

So you got the potential Subie owners on the -15C, 14% grade situation.
Congratulations.

Yep, I will bet my monthly salary that she will get Subaru, so she can tackle that road going downhill.
 
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
How do they enforce this specifically with out-of-state drivers ? The law should include wording like "vehicles registered in the state of CO". That's how Ohio has the wording for window tint, for example. While the police might not like 5% tint on a vehicle with Florida plates, they can't cite them for breaking Ohio's law (limited to 35%).
I don't believe the tint thing is actually true. When you are in a different state you are subject to their laws.

It's one thing to make yourself aware of the laws of a state that you will be traveling through but a whole different thing to undo modifications to your vehicle that are allowed where you live.
Quote
4513.241 Using tinted glass and other vision obscuring materials.
The rules adopted under this section may provide for persons who meet either of the following qualifications:

(2) Establish residency in this state and are required to register a motor vehicle that does not conform to the requirements of this section or of any rule adopted under this section.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw

No you are not typical Subaru driver. I have a lot of friends that ski with me that have Subaru's with snow tires. But amount of people who get Subaru just bcs. it has AWD and that will solve their issue in winter far exceeds drivers like you.


This is true of anything you can buy. Idiot photographers buy Nikon cameras thinking it will make them "the best". Parents buy kids expensive musical instruments so if the kid sucks it's not the instrument's fault. If someone has enough sense to buy their way out of driving poorly in the winter, Subaru (and the Honda CRV) seem to attract them.

Maybe said idiot keeps getting passed by subarus that are properly equipped with decent drivers, and figures hey, he/she will buy in.

I bet a true (used) subaru aficionado will be able to spot the seller nearly instantly as to which of these two groups they belong to.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
How do they enforce this specifically with out-of-state drivers ? The law should include wording like "vehicles registered in the state of CO". That's how Ohio has the wording for window tint, for example. While the police might not like 5% tint on a vehicle with Florida plates, they can't cite them for breaking Ohio's law (limited to 35%).

Why would someone be exempt if they are out of state? I guess they will get same ticket.


Some states don't have front license plates. In most states that require front license plates it's a ticketable offense to drive without out one. By that argument, should those from states with only one plate get ticketed if they drive into states that require both plates? On a side note, if your state requires an inspection sticker on the windshield, and you drive into DC without it, you're subject to a ticket. Now most DC cops don't know the requirements of states far away, but they do ticket Virginia drivers without one all the time.
 
Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by edyvw

No you are not typical Subaru driver. I have a lot of friends that ski with me that have Subaru's with snow tires. But amount of people who get Subaru just bcs. it has AWD and that will solve their issue in winter far exceeds drivers like you.


This is true of anything you can buy. Idiot photographers buy Nikon cameras thinking it will make them "the best". Parents buy kids expensive musical instruments so if the kid sucks it's not the instrument's fault. If someone has enough sense to buy their way out of driving poorly in the winter, Subaru (and the Honda CRV) seem to attract them.

Maybe said idiot keeps getting passed by subarus that are properly equipped with decent drivers, and figures hey, he/she will buy in.




Subaru has a reputation for being an excellent winter car. And they can be ... but that reputation was earned 20 years ago when all wheel drive cars did not exist, EXCEPT for Subaru's and Audi's, and SUV's were just beginning to trend up.

Fast forward to today, and nearly EVERYBODY has an SUV with all wheel drive. Subaru sells a ton of Foresters, Cross-Treks and Outbacks, and lately Ascents. But they don't sell very many Impreza's or Legacy's anymore.

Subaru has done VERY WELL with their marketing, with sales being very strong in North America.

It's not just Subaru buyers, it's an increasing number of car / suv buyers in general, who actually believe the advertising hype. Products like Mazda's I-Active all wheel drive, that states ...

CONFIDENCE IGNITED BY INTUITION ...

Mazda's predictive i-Activ AWD is an on-demand system featuring sensors that check road conditions 200 times every second. Built to sense, and respond to these conditions, i-Activ AWD helps to ensure a more confident drive.


Sounds AWESOME ! Who needs good tires, or any driving skill, if the car is checking road conditions 200 times a second ... !!! And the general public believes this stuff.
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
How do they enforce this specifically with out-of-state drivers ? The law should include wording like "vehicles registered in the state of CO". That's how Ohio has the wording for window tint, for example. While the police might not like 5% tint on a vehicle with Florida plates, they can't cite them for breaking Ohio's law (limited to 35%).

Why would someone be exempt if they are out of state? I guess they will get same ticket.


Some states don't have front license plates. In most states that require front license plates it's a ticketable offense to drive without out one. By that argument, should those from states with only one plate get ticketed if they drive into states that require both plates? On a side note, if your state requires an inspection sticker on the windshield, and you drive into DC without it, you're subject to a ticket. Now most DC cops don't know the requirements of states far away, but they do ticket Virginia drivers without one all the time.

Yeah, there is a big difference having bald tires in ice and not having front license plate. CO laws require front plate, yet I see numerous cars without one.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Yeah, there is a big difference having bald tires in ice and not having front license plate. CO laws require front plate, yet I see numerous cars without one.
Wait until you see our friends from Missouri coming down I-70. In a dually diesel F-250 doing 90MPH with a John Deere license plate in the rear. Missouri lets farm trucks put them in the front only for some reason. I think they are suppose to have a trailer but never do.
 
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