Is there any truth to the tip of cutting an X into a lead roundnose for better performance? Thank you
Making Roundnose Perform Better?
- Thread starter rrretiree7
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MolaKule
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It cant be because because it would reduce the Ballistic Coefficient and alter the center of mass.
Could create fracturing ammo that fractures upon impact creating several wounding tracks. How do you think a district attorney is going to frame that up for a jury of your peers?
"The defendant couldn't just use regular ammo. No, he modified his ammo to be super deadly exploding killer bullets. "
Just buy factory ammo.
If it's for shooting birds or squirrels then knock yourself out.
"The defendant couldn't just use regular ammo. No, he modified his ammo to be super deadly exploding killer bullets. "
Just buy factory ammo.
If it's for shooting birds or squirrels then knock yourself out.
Backin the day,I used to modify.22 ammo with PacoKelly's "nasty noze tools.
My rifle liked CCI blue box,and with the tool I could make a semi flatnose (better target cutting and impact on small animals), all the way to what was basically a SWC deep hollow point, without changing the POI...clipping the top changed the POI ,the reforming jig didn't...bumping the OD up a little also helped accuracy.
If you are modifying factoryammo for self defence, then you areacting with intent...which doesn't look good.
My rifle liked CCI blue box,and with the tool I could make a semi flatnose (better target cutting and impact on small animals), all the way to what was basically a SWC deep hollow point, without changing the POI...clipping the top changed the POI ,the reforming jig didn't...bumping the OD up a little also helped accuracy.
If you are modifying factoryammo for self defence, then you areacting with intent...which doesn't look good.
Originally Posted by Shannow
If you are modifying factoryammo for self defence, then you areacting with intent...which doesn't look good.
What?
People reload all the time which is technically modifying factory ammo? I have seen plenty of FMJ labeled casings with FTX heads...
Also, people reload 45LC (and others) with homemade lead cast heads all the time? What's the difference between someone casting a lead bullet with the X pattern or them doing it to another brand of ammo?
I'm far from a lawyer but,
Intent technically starts the moment you buy the ammo, actually the moment you buy the weapon you intend to defend yourself with it if the need arises...
Anyway, the only issue I can honestly see when it comes to tooling around with already loaded ammo is that one wrong move and that thing can go boom.
Edit: also, OP, I think if the X mark worked better, these ammo companies with millions of dollars in research and development would be making them that way.
Pick up some Hornady Critical Defense, American Gunner, or Winchester Ranger you're worried about inadequate ammo
If you are modifying factoryammo for self defence, then you areacting with intent...which doesn't look good.
What?
People reload all the time which is technically modifying factory ammo? I have seen plenty of FMJ labeled casings with FTX heads...
Also, people reload 45LC (and others) with homemade lead cast heads all the time? What's the difference between someone casting a lead bullet with the X pattern or them doing it to another brand of ammo?
I'm far from a lawyer but,
Intent technically starts the moment you buy the ammo, actually the moment you buy the weapon you intend to defend yourself with it if the need arises...
Anyway, the only issue I can honestly see when it comes to tooling around with already loaded ammo is that one wrong move and that thing can go boom.
Edit: also, OP, I think if the X mark worked better, these ammo companies with millions of dollars in research and development would be making them that way.
Pick up some Hornady Critical Defense, American Gunner, or Winchester Ranger you're worried about inadequate ammo
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Technically...of course...
imagine a lawyer,describing that the defendant sat over a projectile,critically sculpting a projectile to inflict more lethal damage...versus bought a box of self defense ammo.
In spite of what you and I know regarding the efficacy of either
imagine a lawyer,describing that the defendant sat over a projectile,critically sculpting a projectile to inflict more lethal damage...versus bought a box of self defense ammo.
In spite of what you and I know regarding the efficacy of either
Originally Posted by bubbatime
How do you think a district attorney is going to frame that up for a jury of your peers? "The defendant couldn't just use regular ammo. No, he modified his ammo to be super deadly exploding killer bullets."
Originally Posted by Shannow
.......If you are modifying factoryammo for self defence, then you are acting with intent...which doesn't look good.
I hear this argued a lot. Especially about using reloads / handloads for self defense. While it sounds like a plausible argument, that a prosecutor might try to pick up on, in order to make someone look bad. (Mostly if there isn't anything else on the table that would). Can anyone site an actual case where a defendant in a self defense shooting trial was actually convicted because of using handloads, or "modified ammunition"? Or even having it be a contributing factor?
I'm not saying it never happened. But if it has, I've never seen, read, or heard of it. And this topic comes up constantly on self defense forums every day. It's a non logical argument, because any defense attorney could either argue himself, or else bring in someone well versed on the subject, and explain the whole theory away in 5 minutes by applying common sense.
Anyone who handloads buys their bullets from the same outfits that make the exact same bullets that go into most all modern self defense ammunition. It quickly becomes a non issue from a lethality standpoint over who assembles the rounds. Besides, most handloading manuals published today are watered down to the point factory "+P" self defense ammunition is stronger. Especially when you factor in the powder the ammo makers use. Which is a canister grade that is custom tuned for low flash, and better short barreled performance. Handloaders can't even purchase the stuff if they so desired.
And as far as, "modifying ammo". What could some clown do with a file and a drill in his garage, that would out perform what a multi million dollar ammunition manufacturer like Winchester or Hornady can produce? With a room full of ballistic engineers, and hundreds of thousands of dollars of laboratory grade test equipment? The whole argument is preposterous.
I'm not suggesting to use reloads. In fact, I selected my self defense ammo by asking a Phoenix cop what their department uses..... Which at the time were Speer Gold Dots. So that's what I keep my self defense handguns loaded with.
How do you think a district attorney is going to frame that up for a jury of your peers? "The defendant couldn't just use regular ammo. No, he modified his ammo to be super deadly exploding killer bullets."
Originally Posted by Shannow
.......If you are modifying factoryammo for self defence, then you are acting with intent...which doesn't look good.
I hear this argued a lot. Especially about using reloads / handloads for self defense. While it sounds like a plausible argument, that a prosecutor might try to pick up on, in order to make someone look bad. (Mostly if there isn't anything else on the table that would). Can anyone site an actual case where a defendant in a self defense shooting trial was actually convicted because of using handloads, or "modified ammunition"? Or even having it be a contributing factor?
I'm not saying it never happened. But if it has, I've never seen, read, or heard of it. And this topic comes up constantly on self defense forums every day. It's a non logical argument, because any defense attorney could either argue himself, or else bring in someone well versed on the subject, and explain the whole theory away in 5 minutes by applying common sense.
Anyone who handloads buys their bullets from the same outfits that make the exact same bullets that go into most all modern self defense ammunition. It quickly becomes a non issue from a lethality standpoint over who assembles the rounds. Besides, most handloading manuals published today are watered down to the point factory "+P" self defense ammunition is stronger. Especially when you factor in the powder the ammo makers use. Which is a canister grade that is custom tuned for low flash, and better short barreled performance. Handloaders can't even purchase the stuff if they so desired.
And as far as, "modifying ammo". What could some clown do with a file and a drill in his garage, that would out perform what a multi million dollar ammunition manufacturer like Winchester or Hornady can produce? With a room full of ballistic engineers, and hundreds of thousands of dollars of laboratory grade test equipment? The whole argument is preposterous.
I'm not suggesting to use reloads. In fact, I selected my self defense ammo by asking a Phoenix cop what their department uses..... Which at the time were Speer Gold Dots. So that's what I keep my self defense handguns loaded with.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/32-s...acketed-hollow-point-magtech-ammo-32swlc
it is a under powered round , cutting a "X" isn't going to do much but get your tail in a crack. If do insist on using a .32, the above is better than a sharp stick.
it is a under powered round , cutting a "X" isn't going to do much but get your tail in a crack. If do insist on using a .32, the above is better than a sharp stick.
I remember an Ayoob column from years ago where he said that it is better from a legal point of view to have a hammerless revolver that can only be shot double action than a revolver with a hammer that can be fired single action. Why? Because of intent that a lawyer can point out to a jury if you shoot an intruder or an attacker. By cocking the hammer on a revolver before the shooting, you have shown your intent to shoot the person as soon as you cock the hammer and this can take it from self defense to a pre-meditated act. So I am always conscious of this and use a hammerless revolver as a carry gun/ home defense gun.
Originally Posted by Boomer
I remember an Ayoob column from years ago where he said that it is better from a legal point of view to have a hammerless revolver that can only be shot double action than a revolver with a hammer that can be fired single action. Why? Because of intent that a lawyer can point out to a jury if you shoot an intruder or an attacker. By cocking the hammer on a revolver before the shooting, you have shown your intent to shoot the person as soon as you cock the hammer and this can take it from self defense to a pre-meditated act. So I am always conscious of this and use a hammerless revolver as a carry gun/ home defense gun.
Unless it's an outright accident, how can you possibly discharge a weapon at someone without intent? Any prosecutor could argue you have shown "intent" as soon as your gun clears leather. When a cop in the field takes his gun out of it's holster, his reasoning isn't to make the perp healthier.
Does a person carrying a 1911 in Condition 1, show more "intent" than the same guy carrying in Condition 2?
I remember an Ayoob column from years ago where he said that it is better from a legal point of view to have a hammerless revolver that can only be shot double action than a revolver with a hammer that can be fired single action. Why? Because of intent that a lawyer can point out to a jury if you shoot an intruder or an attacker. By cocking the hammer on a revolver before the shooting, you have shown your intent to shoot the person as soon as you cock the hammer and this can take it from self defense to a pre-meditated act. So I am always conscious of this and use a hammerless revolver as a carry gun/ home defense gun.
Unless it's an outright accident, how can you possibly discharge a weapon at someone without intent? Any prosecutor could argue you have shown "intent" as soon as your gun clears leather. When a cop in the field takes his gun out of it's holster, his reasoning isn't to make the perp healthier.
Does a person carrying a 1911 in Condition 1, show more "intent" than the same guy carrying in Condition 2?
Originally Posted by rrretiree7
Is there any truth to the tip of cutting an X into a lead roundnose for better performance? Thank you
No.
It won't help.
You want a good performing bullet? Then buy factory ammo designed to optimize performance.
Here: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=141
Is there any truth to the tip of cutting an X into a lead roundnose for better performance? Thank you
No.
It won't help.
You want a good performing bullet? Then buy factory ammo designed to optimize performance.
Here: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=141
Simple people, you empty ALL of your rounds into the fool, then your INTENT was you feared for your life. nobody gives a [censored] about the action, just make sure the accuser is dead.
Yeah a "x" shape would help, the round is underpowed, but I WOULD NOT CUT IT into the bullet, I would do a lead pour and have the "x" shape in the casting, to prevent fractures. Pouring lead bullets is easy, the mold is usually wood.
Just something you need to try, and I would shoot many rounds at the range, if you do cut, then you need some sort of jig, so the "x" will be consistent. You want consistency here.
Yeah a "x" shape would help, the round is underpowed, but I WOULD NOT CUT IT into the bullet, I would do a lead pour and have the "x" shape in the casting, to prevent fractures. Pouring lead bullets is easy, the mold is usually wood.
Just something you need to try, and I would shoot many rounds at the range, if you do cut, then you need some sort of jig, so the "x" will be consistent. You want consistency here.
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Originally Posted by rrretiree7
Is there any truth to the tip of cutting an X into a lead roundnose for better performance? Thank you
Dude... REALLY... please just get a pistol better suited to your purposes which appears to be CC. That museum piece you have, however 'classic' and 'interesting', should not be relied upon for personal defense.
Is there any truth to the tip of cutting an X into a lead roundnose for better performance? Thank you
Dude... REALLY... please just get a pistol better suited to your purposes which appears to be CC. That museum piece you have, however 'classic' and 'interesting', should not be relied upon for personal defense.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by rrretiree7
Is there any truth to the tip of cutting an X into a lead roundnose for better performance? Thank you
It seems you're intent on using this pistol for self defense for whatever reason. 680 fps and 87 ft/lbs of energy isn't much to work with. For comparison Win .22 LR 36 gr HV ammo is 1280 fps and 131 ft/lbs.
The only thing you can do to make this a better self defense round is to buy a bunch of whatever ammo you like and shoot it a lot and get accurate with it. You fire in self defense to stop the threat, if someone is intent on doing you harm a head shot might be the only way to stop them with this caliber. Yes it will kill but that might be after the bad guy has bashed your head or stabbed you. Having a firearm is better than not having one. Good luck.
Is there any truth to the tip of cutting an X into a lead roundnose for better performance? Thank you
It seems you're intent on using this pistol for self defense for whatever reason. 680 fps and 87 ft/lbs of energy isn't much to work with. For comparison Win .22 LR 36 gr HV ammo is 1280 fps and 131 ft/lbs.
The only thing you can do to make this a better self defense round is to buy a bunch of whatever ammo you like and shoot it a lot and get accurate with it. You fire in self defense to stop the threat, if someone is intent on doing you harm a head shot might be the only way to stop them with this caliber. Yes it will kill but that might be after the bad guy has bashed your head or stabbed you. Having a firearm is better than not having one. Good luck.
I haven't seen the OP respond, but are we all assuming that the OP is after self defense ammo?
I remember as a teen a brother of a friend was cutting X's into some 44's, I forget if he was planning to go moose hunting, deer hunting or hunting targets in the backyard. For faster expansion (so I'm guessing not moose hunting). But it sure wasn't for shooting people.
c'mon, the OP didn't state what caliber he was thinking of doing this to....
Then again, as I look again, his location is listed as NYC so maybe it is for self defense. In which case I'd buy better ammo.
Hey, maybe he's near NJ and can't have hollow points? Are those still prohibited there?
I remember as a teen a brother of a friend was cutting X's into some 44's, I forget if he was planning to go moose hunting, deer hunting or hunting targets in the backyard. For faster expansion (so I'm guessing not moose hunting). But it sure wasn't for shooting people.
c'mon, the OP didn't state what caliber he was thinking of doing this to....
Then again, as I look again, his location is listed as NYC so maybe it is for self defense. In which case I'd buy better ammo.
Hey, maybe he's near NJ and can't have hollow points? Are those still prohibited there?
Originally Posted by Boomer
I remember an Ayoob column from years ago where he said that it is better from a legal point of view to have a hammerless revolver that can only be shot double action than a revolver with a hammer that can be fired single action. Why? Because of intent that a lawyer can point out to a jury if you shoot an intruder or an attacker. By cocking the hammer on a revolver before the shooting, you have shown your intent to shoot the person as soon as you cock the hammer and this can take it from self defense to a pre-meditated act. So I am always conscious of this and use a hammerless revolver as a carry gun/ home defense gun.
He might have stated that. I do recall reading one of his books where a person had cocked his revolver as a warning, but wound up killing the guy. Had he simply kept his mouth shut afterwards (and lawyered up) he would have been fine, it was a clean shoot (no question as the bad guys intentions). The bad might have charged him... I forget now. But he admitted that it went off "without him realizing he pulled the trigger" or somesuch when questioned.
The big thing being: the gun goes off when you meant it to. Every shot is deliberate.
Lawyers can argue however they want. I've read of the argument against handloads too. IMO good ammo is cheap enough to go that route. But a good lawyer should be able to argue around that, a clean shoot is a clean shoot, and caliber (or load) doesn't come into if one is justified in firing (or not). BUT if you ever wind up in that situation do you really want that extra complication in your life? bad enough to have to shoot someone, but do you really want to go through the muck if the other lawyer is a clown? and are you sure your lawyer knows enough to argue around this bogus point?
I remember an Ayoob column from years ago where he said that it is better from a legal point of view to have a hammerless revolver that can only be shot double action than a revolver with a hammer that can be fired single action. Why? Because of intent that a lawyer can point out to a jury if you shoot an intruder or an attacker. By cocking the hammer on a revolver before the shooting, you have shown your intent to shoot the person as soon as you cock the hammer and this can take it from self defense to a pre-meditated act. So I am always conscious of this and use a hammerless revolver as a carry gun/ home defense gun.
He might have stated that. I do recall reading one of his books where a person had cocked his revolver as a warning, but wound up killing the guy. Had he simply kept his mouth shut afterwards (and lawyered up) he would have been fine, it was a clean shoot (no question as the bad guys intentions). The bad might have charged him... I forget now. But he admitted that it went off "without him realizing he pulled the trigger" or somesuch when questioned.
The big thing being: the gun goes off when you meant it to. Every shot is deliberate.
Lawyers can argue however they want. I've read of the argument against handloads too. IMO good ammo is cheap enough to go that route. But a good lawyer should be able to argue around that, a clean shoot is a clean shoot, and caliber (or load) doesn't come into if one is justified in firing (or not). BUT if you ever wind up in that situation do you really want that extra complication in your life? bad enough to have to shoot someone, but do you really want to go through the muck if the other lawyer is a clown? and are you sure your lawyer knows enough to argue around this bogus point?
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by supton
I haven't seen the OP respond, but are we all assuming that the OP is after self defense ammo? ?
From OP's 2nd thread about this pistol:
Quote
I have a Harrington and Richardson .32 S and W. I bought a box of 98 Grain Lead Round Nose ammo. The man in the gun store
recommended .32 Wadcutters for self defense. I know nothing about these rounds. Please let me know just what these
rounds can do. Thank you
I haven't seen the OP respond, but are we all assuming that the OP is after self defense ammo? ?
From OP's 2nd thread about this pistol:
Quote
I have a Harrington and Richardson .32 S and W. I bought a box of 98 Grain Lead Round Nose ammo. The man in the gun store
recommended .32 Wadcutters for self defense. I know nothing about these rounds. Please let me know just what these
rounds can do. Thank you
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by supton
I haven't seen the OP respond, but are we all assuming that the OP is after self defense ammo? ?
From OP's 2nd thread about this pistol:
Quote
I have a Harrington and Richardson .32 S and W. I bought a box of 98 Grain Lead Round Nose ammo. The man in the gun store
recommended .32 Wadcutters for self defense. I know nothing about these rounds. Please let me know just what these
rounds can do. Thank you
My bad! I don't visit this forum often, missed that thread.
Originally Posted by supton
I haven't seen the OP respond, but are we all assuming that the OP is after self defense ammo? ?
From OP's 2nd thread about this pistol:
Quote
I have a Harrington and Richardson .32 S and W. I bought a box of 98 Grain Lead Round Nose ammo. The man in the gun store
recommended .32 Wadcutters for self defense. I know nothing about these rounds. Please let me know just what these
rounds can do. Thank you
My bad! I don't visit this forum often, missed that thread.
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