New oil with no Zinc or Phosphorus

Probably not relevant , but the first thing that popped into my mind , not for flat tappet applications .
 
hmmm... no ZDDP. They must be using something like polymeric esters. I want to see some SRV and Sequence IVA results.
 
Originally Posted by csandste
Wonder how the test labs will keep up with this?

It makes performance approvals and specifications even more important (which they already were but people still thought they could predict the future performance of a motor oil via a $35 elemental analysis.)
 
Originally Posted by csandste
Wonder how the test labs will keep up with this?


They already don't....
 
Originally Posted by tundraotto
They already don't....

In what way? How is a lab that tests for Mercedes Benz or Porsche approvals affected? Even API SN or GF-5 is agnostic to these additives.

Unless you are saying that a "test lab" is one that produces the UOA seen on here? That's not a "test lab."
 
Referring to oil analysis only showing the standard Zinc, Phosphorus, Boron, Calcium, Molybdenum etc. type additives....some show antimony etc. There are numerous OTHER additives in oil mfg's add packs that don't show up on the analysis at all.
 
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They are touting clean ring lands and pistons. I'm guessing some ester along with the .4 ash will be a boon to OTR diesels.
 
Originally Posted by dnewton3
I am cautiously excited to hear about this. Not so much as the one branded product, but how the competitive market will respond in general. Often where one goes, others eventually follow ...
Anything that can reduce the PM (particulate matter) loading in the exhaust stream is likely to enhance the longevity of the DPF and all the associated equipment, as well as perhaps reduce regen cycles (saving fuel and annoying events).

If one combined this type of lube successfully with a FBC (fuel borne catalyst, such as BetterDiesel), would that make regens very infrequent? Essentially, if the oil has the ability to reduce SA, and the FBC improves the combustion such that PM is lower, would that not be a great boon to the diesel driven fleet??? If so, THAT could be an entire new game, not just a game changer.

My disdain for modern diesels is based on not only the obscene cost, but the incessant regens and the $$$ of the equipment that support the entire DPF process. If the FBC and lower SA oils could combine to significantly reduce the overall PM loading, then the equipment could be downsized (it would not be eliminated, but it could be made smaller to save space/weight/money and yet still have a reasonable lifespan).



Nice post! These are the reasons I am hanging onto my (semi) old diesel.

This forum needs a "like" button, lol.
 
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I don't see how an oil will make any difference on soot loading in the DPF. It is possible that a change in oil could affect ash loading. Soot loading results from incomplete combustion. That comes mostly from EGR dropping combustion chamber temps. Ash loading ultimately results in DPF cleaning or replacement. It doesn't burn off with regens. If you want something to reduce soot, try Enerburn or delete EGR.
 
Originally Posted by BillyE
I don't see how an oil will make any difference on soot loading in the DPF. It is possible that a change in oil could affect ash loading. Soot loading results from incomplete combustion. That comes mostly from EGR dropping combustion chamber temps. Ash loading ultimately results in DPF cleaning or replacement. It doesn't burn off with regens. If you want something to reduce soot, try Enerburn or delete EGR.


The whole reason for CI-4 to CK-4 reformulations were for the DPF systems.....why press on if it didn't make any difference?
 
I suspect they are using polymer esters and or the new Evonik polymer base oils or similar technologies.

I can't recall the manf., and I believe it was a European manf, but they have been producing low ash and non-zddp oils for some time.
 
its the brand with F....I cant remember either
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by tundraotto
Originally Posted by BillyE
I don't see how an oil will make any difference on soot loading in the DPF. It is possible that a change in oil could affect ash loading. Soot loading results from incomplete combustion. That comes mostly from EGR dropping combustion chamber temps. Ash loading ultimately results in DPF cleaning or replacement. It doesn't burn off with regens. If you want something to reduce soot, try Enerburn or delete EGR.


The whole reason for CI-4 to CK-4 reformulations were for the DPF systems.....why press on if it didn't make any difference?


Soot vs Ash.
 
Originally Posted by Rat407
Thought this was interesting. An oil without those two components, I wonder how it will do.
Light-bulb moment leads to low-ash-producing oil from Chevron


Well, since the beginning of time (almost) piston aircraft engines, the closest match being Shell Aero (and others)15/50 and 20/50 oils have no Zinc/Phosphorus/moly or any metallic type of antiwear agents.
The problem is these antiwear agents lead to carbon deposits.

I hate to say it but I think most people forget, the best anti wear agent in motor oil is the oil itself, not the stuff in UOAs.
People knock RATS tests not keeping in mind this simple fact, in a properly well designed engine/lubrication system, oil film strength is more important then anti wear additives for poorly designed engines.

Yes, you fly the friendly skies in planes who's engines have no antiwear agents in them as you would see in a VOA or UOA.

https://www.shell.com/business-customers/aviation/aeroshell.html

https://www.skygeek.com/aeroshell-15w50.html
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Rat407 said:
...Well, since the beginning of time (almost) piston aircraft engines, the closest match being Shell Aero (and others)15/50 and 20/50 oils have no Zinc/Phosphorus/moly or any metallic type of antiwear agents.
The problem is these antiwear agents lead to carbon deposits.



You might want to check your sources.

There is very little to no ZDDP in piston aircraft engine oils but Phosphorus is definitely in there as an anti-wear agent.

The main deposit maker in aircraft piston engines is the lead from the Tetraethyl lead additive in those fuels, and secondarily, carbon deposits from partially combusted oil.
 
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