Recent Topics
Apple Watch users
by madRiver - 11/14/19 03:05 PM
It's here, arrived early still 1 week to wait
by BeerCan - 11/14/19 02:20 PM
Cooling leaks at hose to housing connections
by Fitz98 - 11/14/19 12:53 PM
Mercedes coolant mixed
by Rohan - 11/14/19 12:49 PM
Lady takes her oil seriously
by Marco620 - 11/14/19 12:25 PM
Bypass oil filter problem
by mario49 - 11/14/19 12:14 PM
2001 Toyota Sequoia
by Tlhfirelion - 11/14/19 11:02 AM
Creation date
by Duffyjr - 11/14/19 10:36 AM
Rescuing a critically sluged 6.4 F-350
by NDServices - 11/14/19 10:02 AM
New Fram boxes
by FordBroncoVWJeta - 11/14/19 10:00 AM
My dad bought a 2017 F150.
by dan_erickson - 11/14/19 09:52 AM
You ever spray paint inside the house?
by atikovi - 11/14/19 09:48 AM
recent experience with Adv Auto
by windeye - 11/14/19 08:59 AM
Lifted Trucks
by Passport1 - 11/14/19 08:56 AM
Fleet oil intervals to save money?
by Todd00000 - 11/14/19 08:44 AM
Motive power brake bleeder
by Redright9 - 11/14/19 08:25 AM
Newest Members
kildeth, contraption22, Caydel, Bull58, Koncrete_Cam
69864 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
121 registered members (53' Stude, Alfred_B, ammolab, 28oz, 2015_PSD, Al, 11 invisible), 2,081 guests, and 27 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics297,415
Posts5,115,065
Members69,864
Most Online3,589
Nov 2nd, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Parts Cannon strikes again #5261296 11/07/19 11:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,809
C
clinebarger Offline OP
OP Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,809
I find these kind of jobs very interesting! The sad thing.....This is a guy that has sent me work in the past (Owns a Vending Company), But always whines/complains because I use OE parts that are naturally more expensive.....So he deals with other shops that will gladly use cheap parts.

UNTIL they can't fix something! He calls me saying his 2002 Chevy Express 3500 box van has a wiring issue & that ALL the ignition components have been replaced but still has no spark.
Sure enough.....
Crank sensor, Cam sensor, Distributor cap, Rotor, Coil, & Ignition module are all new.

*Confirmed that it indeed has no spark out of the coil.
*Cam & Crank signals are present via Scan Data
*Has a good 5-Volt square wave signal from the PCM to the Ignition Control Module
*Has a Primary control signal output to the Ignition Coil from the Module, Along with having a 12-volt return from the Primary Windings (Meaning the coil has power)

There was NO positive Induction on the Primary Coil Control circuit, A good coil will spike the voltage on the Primary circuit past 100-volts when Secondary voltage is released/induced.
This coil was pulling the Primary Circuit all the way to ground....Meaning it's was probably shorted internally? I would have liked to put a Amp Clamp on the Primary to prove it out but this rig has a 300,000 miles on it & I'm not going to mess with the harness causing future issues!

Though I did go one step further that in all honesty I didn't have to.....
A Coil is a Coil, Standard 2 wire ones are anyway, I had some COP coils off a 2013 Ford 3.7L & adapted it to the GM coil connector.....Nice strong spark!!
In the moment, I was concerned about possible damage to the Ignition Control Module because the shorted Coil, But it had control so that's not likely an issue.

1st pic.....Good square wave from the PCM to ICM
2nd pic....Control signal on the Primary.....Negative Induction (Firing line going down)
3rd pic.....Ford COP adapted to the coil connector

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261300 11/07/19 11:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,992
G
GMBoy Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,992
Good job! You are a real mechanic/technician. Too many newer mechanics are just parts changers and guessing at a problem. You have used your knowledge and tools to properly diagnose the issue and I agree - new parts don't always mean you can skip looking there...especially when somebody else did the repairs with cheap parts. I enjoy tracking down hard to find problems and take my time looking and using proper diagnostics to pin point the issue and fix it right the 1st time.

Kuddos to you sir!!

Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261301 11/07/19 11:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,809
C
clinebarger Offline OP
OP Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,809
Installed a new OE Delco coil, Van ran great after I cleared all the fuel out of the cylinders by "Clear Flooding" & taking it on a test drive.
Recommended a oil change ASAP.

Like clockwork he complained that the coil was under warranty from Autozone, I told him the bad coil is in the van & he's welcome to go have it warrantied. Weird that the original coil wasn't on the floor like the other parts that got shot at it, Though the coil is riveted to the bracket from the factory.
I wonder....What was the actual problem to begin with? If the shop changed the coil first. While in fact the crank sensor was faulty.....

That's why I TEST components, Throwing parts at a vehicle is foolish!


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261391 11/08/19 06:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 879
S
SVTCobra Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 879
Reads like I'm watching South Main Auto on YouTube. That would be funny if you did a post the way he talks.

Welcome back readers to the Clinebarger Auto website! Today I'm working on a 2002 Chevrolet! Express can with the big 5.7 liter. Engine doesn't run and came from another shop that threw the parts cannon at it.


Think twice, speak once.
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261440 11/08/19 07:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 474
W
willbur Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 474
I see a Standard parts box in the pic. Regarding non-OE parts and all the complaints about China Junk replacement auto parts, have you had good luck with this brand?

Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261510 11/08/19 08:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 19,743
C
Chris142 Online Content
Online Content
C
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 19,743
So someone replaced the bad coil with another bad coil?


02 Wrangler Napa high milage 10w40
87 F250 Valvoline 15w40
07 fjcruiser Car lube plus 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am Maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor Chevron sae30
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261514 11/08/19 08:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,881
53' Stude Online Content
Online Content
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,881
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Installed a new OE Delco coil, Van ran great after I cleared all the fuel out of the cylinders by "Clear Flooding" & taking it on a test drive.
Recommended a oil change ASAP.

Like clockwork he complained that the coil was under warranty from Autozone, I told him the bad coil is in the van & he's welcome to go have it warrantied. Weird that the original coil wasn't on the floor like the other parts that got shot at it, Though the coil is riveted to the bracket from the factory.
I wonder....What was the actual problem to begin with? If the shop changed the coil first. While in fact the crank sensor was faulty.....

That's why I TEST components, Throwing parts at a vehicle is foolish!



Wish I was working with you. We have two "glorified hack/parts throwers in our shop. Finally fired one yesterday smile


Great work as always sir smile



Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261562 11/08/19 08:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,829
L
LotI Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,829
Like Ron Ananian, the Car Doctor, says...NEW means never ever worked!


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450 Cutaway
19 Buick Regal TourX http://www.fuelly.com/car/buick/regal_tourx/2019/loti/943992
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261567 11/08/19 08:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,459
W
WyrTwister Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,459
There's your problem , lady !


Wyr
God bless
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261609 11/08/19 09:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,243
M
mk378 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,243
Does the service manual say to test the coil with an ohmmeter? If it does, does that not working coil pass? I bet it does.

Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261619 11/08/19 09:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,067
J
JTK Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,067
Very cool.

I'm surprised a 2002 would still have a distributor cap and rotor!


2019 Nissan Pathfinder SV
2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L.
2015 Nissan Versa 1.6 S
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261658 11/08/19 10:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,648
bdcardinal Online Content
Online Content
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,648
[Linked Image]

I love reading about parts cannon fails. Had a shop call in yesterday that was working on a 2016 F-650 with a 6.7. They had a P2002 code and wanted whatever the book said to "make it go away." I looked it up on OASIS and it pointed to either a NOX Trap sensor or a DPF. They wanted to know what those meant.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261665 11/08/19 10:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,207
J
joegreen Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,207
Very nice. I like when you post up stuff like this. Reminds me of scannerdanner.


1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: clinebarger] #5261723 11/08/19 11:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,211
0
02SE Offline
Offline
0
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,211
A buddy of mine works as a salesman at a BMW dealership. He's a former Mechanic who owned his own Fuel Funny Car. Apparently all of the competent Mechanics who could actually diagnose an issue and fix it, have left to start their own garages. All that's left are recent Tech School graduates that can hook up a code reader, and swap parts. I guess the 'parts cannon' approach doesn't matter to the customer, as long as the car is under warranty.

Re: Parts Cannon strikes again [Re: 02SE] #5261739 11/08/19 12:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,648
bdcardinal Online Content
Online Content
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,648
Originally Posted by 02SE
A buddy of mine works as a salesman at a BMW dealership. He's a former Mechanic who owned his own Fuel Funny Car. Apparently all of the competent Mechanics who could actually diagnose an issue and fix it, have left to start their own garages. All that's left are recent Tech School graduates that can hook up a code reader, and swap parts. I guess the 'parts cannon' approach doesn't matter to the customer, as long as the car is under warranty.


There are some manufacturers where the flow chart will hit a point and say "replace with known good part and retest" which of course if that doesn't fix it the "known good part" can't be returned or billed to warranty.

Unrelated, I got tickets to the Winternationals for Saturday. Taking my mom who has never been, but is really excited to see Top Fuel in person.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™