Another friend gone

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Originally Posted by Mr_Joe
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Sounds like grounds for a lawsuit.


Without a doubt that will be coming. As far as lawsuits go, can't blame the family for going that route. Of course it won't bring anyone back.


I am sorry for the loss of your friend, cujet.

The FBO's fueling company was grossly negligent, no question about that. I don't see how you defend putting the wrong fuel in the airplane. They will try to point their finger back at the pilot and shift some, or even all, of the blame to him / her.

Every light airplane I have owned, every light airplane I have been around, has multiple fuel drains to check what is in the tanks. Because of the critical nature of fuel quality, I was taught to check these sumps before EVERY flight and make sure the only substance in the tanks was 100LL.

I've never seen a mixture of Jet Fuel and 100LL. I don' know if a combination of the two layers, or mixes. I don't know if this type of fueling error can be detected by draining a sample. But if it can, and the the pilot didn't check the sumps before flight, the FBO will contend this is contributory negligence. The FBO will have no problem getting multiple experts to say this. They will probably be able to get a deposition from a flying friend or two of the pilot to say this. I don't think the law should require the pilot to stand guard over the fueler to make sure they do their job right. Contributory negligence is handled differently depending on the jurisdiction; some are comparative fault, some are 50 or 51 bar. I don't think any adhere to the old common law doctrine of pure contributory negligence.

I shared a hanger with an Aerostar but didn't pay much attention to it. It eventually killed its owner. Beautiful airplane, otherwise.
 
Originally Posted by Win


I've never seen a mixture of Jet Fuel and 100LL. I don' know if a combination of the two layers, or mixes. I don't know if this type of fueling error can be detected by draining a sample.



Yes, it's easy to check for jet fuel contamination in 100LL, but many people don't know how.

The testing method I know is to put drops of the fuel sample on white paper and let it dry for exactly 30 seconds (at any temperature) . The 100LL will evaporate completely. Any jet fuel will not evaporate and will leave a visible, circular ring.

The GATS jar also has instructions for an evaporation test for Jet fuel contamination, performed by blowing on the wet fuel on the filter screen of the jar. However, even with reading glasses, I can't see well enough to see if the fuel in the micro-pores of the screen has evaporated fully. The screen is a water filter. So the pores are tiny.

GATS says the percentage of contamination reflects the number of pores that have fuel in them after blowing on it. Sure, with a microscope, I could count the "cells", but otherwise, nope.


[Linked Image from conceptaviation.com.au]



Yes, jet fuel and 100LL mix fully. No, you really can't tell by color, as the blue dye in 100LL will mix and the sample will be blue. Yes, the jet fuel smells different, but not every person can tell. I can't.


Originally Posted by CourierDriver
Do those planes have tank drains in the wings to get a fuel sample before taking off...


Yes, and it was Dan's mistake not to check his fuel.




Originally Posted by JC1


Isn't there a sticker next to the fuel port stating what type of fuel to use in addition to the design?



Yes, Dan's plane had the appropriate placards indicating the type and quantity of fuel required. This was noted after the crash.

Note: Aviation is incredibly intolerant of stupidity, ignorance and those with an agenda. We must not hire idiots. Among many of the required qualifications, is the ability to "read, write and understand the English language".
 
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Oh god, and another friend gone. A very different sort of individual, with an adventurous streak a mile wide. I'm saddened beyond belief at the loss of my friend, but it's not really a surprise either. These older military aircraft are not supported by a gang of qualified personnel and parts. I've never seen the risk as acceptable.

My close friend Joe Masessa just died today in his OV-1 Mowhawk, at the Stewart Florida airshow. Not sure what happened yet, but it went straight down from about 1000 feet.

[Linked Image from mohawkairshows.com]
 
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That's horrible, I just read more about it just now on the 'net.
 
I saw this accident on pprune and had no idea the pilot was a friend to you.
As warbirds go, this one seems like a good bet with reliable turbine power, made by a company known for building stout airframes and obviously not pressurized.
This was an old airplane but certainly not ancient and it was operated in enough examples by the Army for enough years that all of the gotchas should by now have been discovered.
A corrosion induced failure of primary structure?
Anyone's guess but we all know that airplanes don't just fall out of the sky without good reason.
There are bound to be some videos available from the airshow crowd to help in identifying the cause of this tragedy.
As for your other friend, while the Aerostar does look pretty racy, I can't see how anyone who'd spent more than a day around aircraft could mistake an opposed piston engine for a turbine just looking at the nacelles.
While there's no doubt that sampling the sumps was recommended prior to every flight, I don't think that your friend could have detected that his aircraft had been serviced with Jet A and not avgas so that probably wouldn't have made any difference.
The FBO deserves to be sued into oblivion and the fueler should maybe be looking at reckless homicide or involuntary manslaughter charges since his negligence cost a man his life.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by billt460
Has there been any more that has come out, as to how the fueler was able to get Jet-A into the Av-Gas tanks? From what I understand, the nozzle which is designed to specifically prevent this sort of thing from happening, is required by Federal government regulation on ALL jet fuel pumps.



Some new info. A different pilot also claimed the same fueler tried to put jet fuel in his Navajo.

The truck had the proper larger jet fuel nozzles. The airplane had the proper fuel fill placards and small fuel
Openings. The fueler had to tilt the nozzle to avoid spillage.

The gallons loaded matched fuel tank capacity. And there is no way he landed with zero fuel. So the fueler spilled well more than the claimed 1 gallon.

Lots of lies from the fueler.


Sounds like murder to me.

Is jet fuel dyed at all, or is it clear? I know avgas is dyed (I think purple...?), but no idea on jet fuel.
 
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Is jet fuel dyed at all, or is it clear? I know avgas is dyed (I think purple...?), but no idea on jet fuel.

It is color coded. I'm still having a hard time with all of this. I am not seeing as how any of this nonsense could have been done accidentally. Just look at what a fueler is up against in order to wrongly fuel an aircraft.

1.) Color coded fuel.

2.) Fuel placards on the aircraft a blind man could see.

3.) Nozzles that literally make it an impossibility to place a Jet-A nozzle into an Avgas filler neck.

How did he do it? And even more importantly, how could he defeat all of these measures to do it "accidentally", without having a light bulb go off? The fuelers claim the pilot "asked" for Jet-A twice is beyond believable. It's insane to even think it. (Would you ask for Diesel in your gasoline powered car?) This whole thing stinks on ice. No amount of lying is going to make any of it any more believable.

COLORS OF AVATION FUEL
[Linked Image]


AVGAS NOZZLE
[Linked Image]


JET-A NOZZLE
[Linked Image]


BOTH NOZLES TOGETHER
[Linked Image]


AIRCRAFT FUELING PLACARD
[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Is jet fuel dyed at all, or is it clear? I know avgas is dyed (I think purple...?), but no idea on jet fuel.

It is color coded. I'm still having a hard time with all of this. I am not seeing as how any of this nonsense could have been done accidentally. Just look at what a fueler is up against in order to wrongly fuel an aircraft.

1.) Color coded fuel.

2.) Fuel placards on the aircraft a blind man could see.

3.) Nozzles that literally make it an impossibility to place a Jet-A nozzle into an Avgas filler neck.


4.) The fumes also smell different.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
4.) The fumes also smell different.

Exactly. Kerosene, (which is basically what Jet-A is), has a very pungent, distinctive odor that can easily be detected from the odor of gasoline.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
Oh god, and another friend gone......... Not sure what happened yet, but it went straight down from about 1000 feet.

Sorry to hear about this Cujet. Here is a link to a short cell phone video showing the crash. It went in looking like it was under control. Just rapidly descending right up until impact. I wonder if there was a control malfunction, or the pilot became incapacitated? It did not look like it was out of control at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx_vL46q3eM
 
Originally Posted by billt460
I wonder if there was a control malfunction, or the pilot became incapacitated? It did not look like it was out of control at all


I think live ATC dot com pulled the audio from the crash. That means he probably said something of importance prior to the crash.
 
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