Buying Used BMW Checklist

[WhyMe]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by WhyMe
my experience with owning a 02 330i for 14 years and 175k miles is that don't buy one unless you can fix it yourself or have lot of money to pay a shop. all the stuff i fixed on mine were just the normal bmw stuff like cooling etc. the parts surprisingly are not that expensive so doing it myself did not cost much. pay a shop and you are gonna get shocked.

mine is old enough that it did not have too many electronics in it. i would never buy a newer bmw without a warranty.

Depends which shop? Indy is same for BMW and Toyota. Actually transverse V6 Toyota's shock people with labor hours. BMW X5 has more streamlined brake pad replacement than for example my Sienna. Take it to the dealer, well, they charge premium for premium vehicle.


i think its because a BMW regaurdless if its the lowest model is still considered by many a premium vehicle so shop charge more to repair them. a friend of mine has a 2011 X5 and was having a engine stumble issue. i told him its probably a bad coil. he was going to take it to the dealer to get it checked. i suggested a indy close to his house. my guess of a coil was correct and he had them all replaced. the coils are maybe $300 at the most. maybe an hour at the most to replace them. indy charged him $1050 for the replacement. he was actually pretty happy paying it as he was sure the dealer would be even higher.

with any out of warranty BMW i think shops know that 99% of the people that bring their car to them don't know squat about them. if they did they would just do it themselves most of the time like i did.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I have had 2 used BMWs still have a 98 328i 5 speed. No matter the mileage BMWs will have problems. Mine checked out 100% at a mechanic had about 75k miles and has had tons of repairs. Now at 179k. 2 head gaskets, 1 head, vanos rebuild, filter housing gasket, vanos hydraulic line, heater hose, 3 power steering pumps, alternator, idlers, water pump, radiator, hoses, 3 seat gear repairs, window channel repair, sun roof repair, trunk wiring/ turn signal repair, clutch, front calipers, 1 rear wheel bearing, MAF boot, 2 batteries. I think that's it. Compared to our old 99 Camry 250k miles, 2 timing belts, 1 brake change, battery every 4 years like a clock, fluid changes that's it. Huge difference.


I've owned 12 BMWs since 1983 and aside from a transfer case on my E83 X3 2.5i I haven't had a really expensive repair such as you have described. Yes, I've replaced a couple of radiators and water pumps, not to mention a couple of valve cover and oil filter housing gaskets but nothing really major. Certainly nothing extreme enough to force me to drive something less engaging.


I guess my impression on BMW's is that:

i) you HAVE TO rely on the community of BMW enthusiasts (and that is not necessarily a bad thing of course) because BMW really, really keeps the (virtual) repair manual / factory workshop manual close to their chest. It is simply NOT available beyond the dealer chain; and

ii) I really like manual transmissions... and in north america you are very, very hard-pressed to find competent repair shops that will dive into the guts of said transmissions... because manual transmissions are so few and far between here, and - related - because Getrag or ZF simply do not sell parts to anyone other than maybe to a single high volume factory-licensed rebuilder in Europe.

Now an automatic transmission can be ultra filtered, cooled, and really taken care of... by comparison to a manual transmission that has no filtration system (and true enough, does not get very hot) - but also, can suffer from ham-fisted drivers. Automatic transmissions are well-served by the repair trade in North America. If I buy a used BMW and I find that a bearing becomes noisy (which can happen, with no oil filtration), or a synchro needs replaced... I'm hooped. I have to go to BMW - the dealer - and get a factory-rebuilt transmission (they do not sell new ones, I believe) - and I will have to pay a king's ransom by way of $.

I KNOW it's not in the same class by way of drive-quality or power... but my with my late model Mazda - I can buy transaxle parts down to the last synchro ball-strut, and I have ready access to the full factory manual. I like that.

That's what scares me about BMW's. I would own one in a flash... but cuz I would have to buy used, and because I am really picky re the action of the synchromesh (and I cannot freshen-up the synchro's cuz they are simply not available...) well, that gives me pause.

I would appreciate hearing your- or Others' perspectives.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
How long do you own them? I still drive it so I'm not bashing or anything just saying they need a lot more care than other cars. They used to be fantastic cars up to 100k miles. Now they don't even make it that far. If I got a new BMW it would be gone before the warranty ran out.


People still think the same of Mercedes. Both of mine are over 100k, one a tad over 100k the other at 125k. No major issues. No warranty from day 1. One is 2008, the other 2011. No big deal. Depreciation is pretty high so you can pick them up cheap because everyone seems to think the above.


Same here; I've owned all but a couple of my 12 BMWs well past 100k miles. My E36/5 ti was my HPDE instructor car from 1996 to 2012; it has over 140k miles on it and I've owned it since new. We kept my wife's E83 X3 for 11 years and 198k miles.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT


I guess my impression on BMW's is that:

i) you HAVE TO rely on the community of BMW enthusiasts (and that is not necessarily a bad thing of course) because BMW really, really keeps the (virtual) repair manual / factory workshop manual close to their chest. It is simply NOT available beyond the dealer chain; and

ii) I really like manual transmissions... and in north america you are very, very hard-pressed to find competent repair shops that will dive into the guts of said transmissions... because manual transmissions are so few and far between here, and - related - because Getrag or ZF simply do not sell parts to anyone other than maybe to a single high volume factory-licensed rebuilder in Europe.

Now an automatic transmission can be ultra filtered, cooled, and really taken care of... by comparison to a manual transmission that has no filtration system (and true enough, does not get very hot) - but also, can suffer from ham-fisted drivers. Automatic transmissions are well-served by the repair trade in North America. If I buy a used BMW and I find that a bearing becomes noisy (which can happen, with no oil filtration), or a synchro needs replaced... I'm hooped. I have to go to BMW - the dealer - and get a factory-rebuilt transmission (they do not sell new ones, I believe) - and I will have to pay a king's ransom by way of $.

I KNOW it's not in the same class by way of drive-quality or power... but my with my late model Mazda - I can buy transaxle parts down to the last synchro ball-strut, and I have ready access to the full factory manual. I like that.

That's what scares me about BMW's. I would own one in a flash... but cuz I would have to buy used, and because I am really picky re the action of the synchromesh (and I cannot freshen-up the synchro's cuz they are simply not available...) well, that gives me pause.

I would appreciate hearing your- or Others' perspectives.



Not really true about the repair information. That is one of the great things about the BMW community actually. Lots of information is available, and there are plenty of people out there willing to help others who are sometimes even better at working on the cars than the dealerships. Some dealers are great, some just hire the cheapest techs out of school they can get who are only really familiar with the current models on the lot.

Example:

My 2009 328i had a tire pressure sensor go bad. It was original, and the battery was dead. I didn't want to have to replace the sensor or deal with the TPMS since I have another set of winter wheels/tires I swap on without sensors that gives me an error anyway. I had someone from the forums code out my TPMS and now I never have to buy sensors again or deal with that stupid system. The cost to have them do it was $80, which was cheaper than just 1 tire pressure sensor. I check my tire pressures enough that I don't need a TPMS.

On the contrary, the Grand Cherokee in my sig had a module go bad for the rear differential lock. The module wasn't super expensive, but it needed to be coded to the vehicle. The only place I could get the module coded was the dealership for $200/hour. Every other shop in the area I called did not have that capability.

Yes, BMWs can be expensive if you can't DIY or are uninformed on what issues to look for, but so can every other car manufacturer out there. Many of us on BITOG are DIY'ers which saves big bucks. A coworker has a 2013 Ford Focus, and it needed front brakes. She called many different shops and didn't get a quote that was under $500 for just pads and rotors.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
You see battery is located in Tiguan in the engine compartment and here it is running 8 years, still pushing 12V (compared to Toyota's 8.5V just before died).
If the battery in your wife's VW has a resting voltage of only 12v, it is bad. A good fully charged battery will show a resting voltage of 12.6v. Do you REALLY want your wife driving a vehicle that has a bad 8 year old battery? If so, she is going to get stranded soon.

LOL, it is ok, it is VW. I am confident it will start in the morning, unlike Toyota.

You're too funny...

Heh, I had a dead flat battery in my Tundra once, and it started off jumper cables--used to be, I'd have to wait a few minutes to get enough charge over the cables to jump cars in the past, but wouldn't you know, starters seem to have come a long ways. Now just a hint of voltage seems to be enough. Oddly enough, that Tundra battery lived through being discharged to 9V and is still plugging along--despite being 9 years old! I'm expecting it to die suddenly, and without warning, but when it does, I'll either swap batteries (I think all three of my vehicles take the same size) or immediately go to Walmart for a new one. [Now the wife's car, I did proactively replace the battery, but one of is a bit more able to swap batteries than the other.]

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
You see battery is located in Tiguan in the engine compartment and here it is running 8 years, still pushing 12V (compared to Toyota's 8.5V just before died).
If the battery in your wife's VW has a resting voltage of only 12v, it is bad. A good fully charged battery will show a resting voltage of 12.6v. Do you REALLY want your wife driving a vehicle that has a bad 8 year old battery? If so, she is going to get stranded soon.

LOL, it is ok, it is VW. I am confident it will start in the morning, unlike Toyota.

You're too funny...

Heh, I had a dead flat battery in my Tundra once, and it started off jumper cables--used to be, I'd have to wait a few minutes to get enough charge over the cables to jump cars in the past, but wouldn't you know, starters seem to have come a long ways. Now just a hint of voltage seems to be enough. Oddly enough, that Tundra battery lived through being discharged to 9V and is still plugging along--despite being 9 years old! I'm expecting it to die suddenly, and without warning, but when it does, I'll either swap batteries (I think all three of my vehicles take the same size) or immediately go to Walmart for a new one. [Now the wife's car, I did proactively replace the battery, but one of is a bit more able to swap batteries than the other.]

Battery loses voltage over time. As long as it is above 11 it will be fine. Talking about 12.6V in resting is possible when new.
But installed 75ah now so we will see, now I have to jump on coolant, as unlike VW, coolant in Toyota is obviously cannot last 5yrs. I was measuring yesterday as we have tonight temperatures dropping to -5 and possibly -15, it showed coolant going only to -10, after 4yrs and 64k. IDK what Toyota owners consider normal, but for me that is not. Obviously I have to get a grip and expect less from it.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I have had 2 used BMWs still have a 98 328i 5 speed. No matter the mileage BMWs will have problems. Mine checked out 100% at a mechanic had about 75k miles and has had tons of repairs. Now at 179k. 2 head gaskets, 1 head, vanos rebuild, filter housing gasket, vanos hydraulic line, heater hose, 3 power steering pumps, alternator, idlers, water pump, radiator, hoses, 3 seat gear repairs, window channel repair, sun roof repair, trunk wiring/ turn signal repair, clutch, front calipers, 1 rear wheel bearing, MAF boot, 2 batteries. I think that's it. Compared to our old 99 Camry 250k miles, 2 timing belts, 1 brake change, battery every 4 years like a clock, fluid changes that's it. Huge difference.


I've owned 12 BMWs since 1983 and aside from a transfer case on my E83 X3 2.5i I haven't had a really expensive repair such as you have described. Yes, I've replaced a couple of radiators and water pumps, not to mention a couple of valve cover and oil filter housing gaskets but nothing really major. Certainly nothing extreme enough to force me to drive something less engaging.


I guess my impression on BMW's is that:

i) you HAVE TO rely on the community of BMW enthusiasts (and that is not necessarily a bad thing of course) because BMW really, really keeps the (virtual) repair manual / factory workshop manual close to their chest. It is simply NOT available beyond the dealer chain; and

ii) I really like manual transmissions... and in north america you are very, very hard-pressed to find competent repair shops that will dive into the guts of said transmissions... because manual transmissions are so few and far between here, and - related - because Getrag or ZF simply do not sell parts to anyone other than maybe to a single high volume factory-licensed rebuilder in Europe.

Now an automatic transmission can be ultra filtered, cooled, and really taken care of... by comparison to a manual transmission that has no filtration system (and true enough, does not get very hot) - but also, can suffer from ham-fisted drivers. Automatic transmissions are well-served by the repair trade in North America. If I buy a used BMW and I find that a bearing becomes noisy (which can happen, with no oil filtration), or a synchro needs replaced... I'm hooped. I have to go to BMW - the dealer - and get a factory-rebuilt transmission (they do not sell new ones, I believe) - and I will have to pay a king's ransom by way of $.

I KNOW it's not in the same class by way of drive-quality or power... but my with my late model Mazda - I can buy transaxle parts down to the last synchro ball-strut, and I have ready access to the full factory manual. I like that.

That's what scares me about BMW's. I would own one in a flash... but cuz I would have to buy used, and because I am really picky re the action of the synchromesh (and I cannot freshen-up the synchro's cuz they are simply not available...) well, that gives me pause.

I would appreciate hearing your- or Others' perspectives.


Bentley Manuals and of course there's BMW TIS

Oh and let's not forget you can download for free BMW dealer level diagnostic software if one really wants that level of detail.

 

[supton]

No idea what you are talking about. Toyota SLLC(?) (the pink stuff) is what, 5 years/100k? After that, do a radiator drain and fill every 2-3 years and 50k (going off memory here). Rocket science it is not.

I don't see busted radiators here and we see -10F routinely in winter. As does the rest of the USA. I bet most "average" Toyota owners never change the coolant and they still go 10 years & 150k without issue. Methinks whatever you are using to test the coolant has gone bad if you have an issue.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Battery loses voltage over time. As long as it is above 11 it will be fine. Talking about 12.6V in resting is possible when new.
I know that you won't admit it, but as you often are, you are wrong! You should educate yourself before you spout-off inaccurate statements. You have some reading to do. Start with the "Automotive Electrical" section here on BITOG. You can even start a thread asking if 11v (or even 12v) indicates that you still have a good battery and see what the other more educated/informed/experienced members have to say. While you are at it, ask if 5 years is a reasonable life expectancy for a underhood located wet cell battery. You don't have to believe me, plenty of other members will set you straight. Go ahead and argue with them and see what they have to say.

The following chart is available all over the Internet. The red zone indicates where the battery will likely no-longer start a vehicle. I don't care how good VW's starter motors are, they can't overcome the laws of physics.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by supton
No idea what you are talking about. Toyota SLLC(?) (the pink stuff) is what, 5 years/100k? After that, do a radiator drain and fill every 2-3 years and 50k (going off memory here). Rocket science it is not.

I don't see busted radiators here and we see -10F routinely in winter. As does the rest of the USA. I bet most "average" Toyota owners never change the coolant and they still go 10 years & 150k without issue. Methinks whatever you are using to test the coolant has gone bad if you have an issue.
Edy talks out of his you-know-what supton. He hates Toyota so much that he spouts-off irrational inaccurate nonsense.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by supton
No idea what you are talking about. Toyota SLLC(?) (the pink stuff) is what, 5 years/100k? After that, do a radiator drain and fill every 2-3 years and 50k (going off memory here). Rocket science it is not.

I don't see busted radiators here and we see -10F routinely in winter. As does the rest of the USA. I bet most "average" Toyota owners never change the coolant and they still go 10 years & 150k without issue. Methinks whatever you are using to test the coolant has gone bad if you have an issue.
Edy talks out of his you-know-what supton. He hates Toyota so much that he spouts-off irrational inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah I know, but at the same time, random people wander onto this site, and I'd hate for someone to come here and think that Toyota coolant is one step removed from lemon juice. It's not some magical elixir but it works just fine. Thus to some degree, inane comments need comment, and then the thread drifts off into lala land.

 

[gofast182]

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted by chims
Do your research

There are several different models with their own trim levels[/url], and depending on the model year, those trim levels may vary, so there's definitely a lot of details to think about.

There's also the cost of ownership and maintenance. Luxury cars, such as BMWs are the most expensive to maintain by far. BMWs do break, and they will be expensive to repair once they break.

Check the vehicle history

Get to know the history of the car. Verify it's got a clean title. Run its VIN. Check if it's been involved in any accidents or written off by an insurance company. If the BMW was in an accident, find out how it was damaged and how it was fixed.

Take the car to a mechanic for an inspection

Most dealerships allow potential buyers to take a car off the lot to have it inspected. Taking a used car to a mechanic before you buy it can help you avoid a car with damage or problems. Ideally, the inspection should include a test drive.


This applies to every single car. Heck, even some year Camry models are to be avoided as they had latent engine problems.

Your list is just too generic to be applied to BMW. You mentioned absolutely nothing specific for BMW such as plastic parts in the engine and short lived cooling system etc.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by supton
No idea what you are talking about. Toyota SLLC(?) (the pink stuff) is what, 5 years/100k? After that, do a radiator drain and fill every 2-3 years and 50k (going off memory here). Rocket science it is not.

I don't see busted radiators here and we see -10F routinely in winter. As does the rest of the USA. I bet most "average" Toyota owners never change the coolant and they still go 10 years & 150k without issue. Methinks whatever you are using to test the coolant has gone bad if you have an issue.

It is pink stuff, SLLC, measuring -10. Let's give it -20 bcs. measurement device is not really state of the art. Wether average Toyota owner goes 10 years or not is not my concern. I ski twice a week and see regularly -30f, and I really do not care what average Toyota owner does.
But luckily, I have Tiguan in garage for really cold days.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
Battery loses voltage over time. As long as it is above 11 it will be fine. Talking about 12.6V in resting is possible when new.
I know that you won't admit it, but as you often are, you are wrong! You should educate yourself before you spout-off inaccurate statements. You have some reading to do. Start with the "Automotive Electrical" section here on BITOG. You can even start a thread asking if 11v (or even 12v) indicates that you still have a good battery and see what the other more educated/informed/experienced members have to say. While you are at it, ask if 5 years is a reasonable life expectancy for a underhood located wet cell battery. You don't have to believe me, plenty of other members will set you straight. Go ahead and argue with them and see what they have to say.

The following chart is available all over the Internet. The red zone indicates where the battery will likely no-longer start a vehicle. I don't care how good VW's starter motors are, they can't overcome the laws of physics.

IDK man, VW works 8 years with same battery and I still trust it more in the morning than SIenna with new battery.
Obviously Toyota has different quality control than VW, and that is fine.
But i must say it is really funny reading how Toyota fans bend backward justifying their decision making process, bc. insecurities.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by edyvw
But i must say it is really funny reading how Toyota fans bend backward justifying their decision making process, bc. insecurities.
I'm not at-all insecure about the 180k mile 15 year old (zero repair) Toyota that I own now, nor have I been insecure about any one of the Toyotas I have previously owned, each of which lasting over 250k miles, and one of which lasting 312k miles. I didn't wear any one of them out, they were all either totaled or sold (still running, driving, and registered). Furthermore, in the 48+ years that I have been involved in the auto business and the many thousands of Toyota owners I have come into contact with, I have never met a single Toyota owner who hated Toyotas (like you do). Frankly, I have to question whether you actually own a Toyota and what your real motives are for criticizing and denigrating Toyota products and their owners. It appears to me that you are just trolling for arguments.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I have had 2 used BMWs still have a 98 328i 5 speed. No matter the mileage BMWs will have problems. Mine checked out 100% at a mechanic had about 75k miles and has had tons of repairs. Now at 179k. 2 head gaskets, 1 head, vanos rebuild, filter housing gasket, vanos hydraulic line, heater hose, 3 power steering pumps, alternator, idlers, water pump, radiator, hoses, 3 seat gear repairs, window channel repair, sun roof repair, trunk wiring/ turn signal repair, clutch, front calipers, 1 rear wheel bearing, MAF boot, 2 batteries. I think that's it. Compared to our old 99 Camry 250k miles, 2 timing belts, 1 brake change, battery every 4 years like a clock, fluid changes that's it. Huge difference.


I've owned 12 BMWs since 1983 and aside from a transfer case on my E83 X3 2.5i I haven't had a really expensive repair such as you have described. Yes, I've replaced a couple of radiators and water pumps, not to mention a couple of valve cover and oil filter housing gaskets but nothing really major. Certainly nothing extreme enough to force me to drive something less engaging.


I guess my impression on BMW's is that:

i) you HAVE TO rely on the community of BMW enthusiasts (and that is not necessarily a bad thing of course) because BMW really, really keeps the (virtual) repair manual / factory workshop manual close to their chest. It is simply NOT available beyond the dealer chain; and

ii) I really like manual transmissions... and in north america you are very, very hard-pressed to find competent repair shops that will dive into the guts of said transmissions... because manual transmissions are so few and far between here, and - related - because Getrag or ZF simply do not sell parts to anyone other than maybe to a single high volume factory-licensed rebuilder in Europe.

Now an automatic transmission can be ultra filtered, cooled, and really taken care of... by comparison to a manual transmission that has no filtration system (and true enough, does not get very hot) - but also, can suffer from ham-fisted drivers. Automatic transmissions are well-served by the repair trade in North America. If I buy a used BMW and I find that a bearing becomes noisy (which can happen, with no oil filtration), or a synchro needs replaced... I'm hooped. I have to go to BMW - the dealer - and get a factory-rebuilt transmission (they do not sell new ones, I believe) - and I will have to pay a king's ransom by way of $.

I KNOW it's not in the same class by way of drive-quality or power... but my with my late model Mazda - I can buy transaxle parts down to the last synchro ball-strut, and I have ready access to the full factory manual. I like that.

That's what scares me about BMW's. I would own one in a flash... but cuz I would have to buy used, and because I am really picky re the action of the synchromesh (and I cannot freshen-up the synchro's cuz they are simply not available...) well, that gives me pause.

I would appreciate hearing your- or Others' perspectives.


Bump.

Interested in hearing whether hard-copy manuals are available, other than the Bentley series (which I like) - but are only put out there when the vehicle gets pretty old.

Also, interested to hear about manual transmission internal parts and possibly rebuild jigs.

TIA!

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

As I do not have a BMW... and therefore do not have a VIN number - I cannot get very far with the BMWTIS system. Can someone explain what that is?

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
Battery loses voltage over time. As long as it is above 11 it will be fine. Talking about 12.6V in resting is possible when new.
I know that you won't admit it, but as you often are, you are wrong! You should educate yourself before you spout-off inaccurate statements. You have some reading to do. Start with the "Automotive Electrical" section here on BITOG. You can even start a thread asking if 11v (or even 12v) indicates that you still have a good battery and see what the other more educated/informed/experienced members have to say. While you are at it, ask if 5 years is a reasonable life expectancy for a underhood located wet cell battery. You don't have to believe me, plenty of other members will set you straight. Go ahead and argue with them and see what they have to say.

The following chart is available all over the Internet. The red zone indicates where the battery will likely no-longer start a vehicle. I don't care how good VW's starter motors are, they can't overcome the laws of physics.

5 years is great. Anything over 5 is gravy.

Thx for the chart. It seems to me that as a battery ages, even with the best of charging methodologies, a person often cannot get the voltage up.... say to 13.5V (just as you end the charge) - and a settled voltage of 12.6 (a few hours later). So, said battery is on its way out...

I also have a battery acid tester. You need at least 1275 (1.275) specific gravity - to consider the battery fully charged. When you do a "traverse" across the cells, you find that some simply will not go to 1275... Said cells are either sulphated or shorted or... just not very "active" any more. Battery is on borrowed time...

Plates have to always be covered by acid. You also should generally not charge at more than 10% of the overall battery AMP-Hrs rating (e.g. 70 amp-hrs... charge at next lowest amps... 7 ---> 5 amps). Battery should not get too warm during charging. Always used distilled water to add to the individual cells (not deionized water). During charging, you should see bubbles rising to the surface in ea. cell. Generally should be the same degree of cell-bubble-producing in all six cells.

Lastly, you should use a battery maintainer for a vehicle that is in storage. It does not overcharge the battery, and "boil-off" the acid (exposing the plates). A battery typicall self-discharges a % per day. Batteries should also be kept clean, on top, using warm water and baking soda... being really careful to NOT allow any of it to leak into the cells!

These days, some smart chargers can "shock" the sulphation off the plates (at bit) if a battery has been allowed to discharge.. I don't know much about them -- but lead acid batteries should NOT be allowed to run down in voltage... This causes sulphation of the plates.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
But i must say it is really funny reading how Toyota fans bend backward justifying their decision making process, bc. insecurities.
I'm not at-all insecure about the 180k mile 15 year old (zero repair) Toyota that I own now, nor have I been insecure about any one of the Toyotas I have previously owned, each of which lasting over 250k miles, and one of which lasting 312k miles. I didn't wear any one of them out, they were all either totaled or sold (still running, driving, and registered). Furthermore, in the 48+ years that I have been involved in the auto business and the many thousands of Toyota owners I have come into contact with, I have never met a single Toyota owner who hated Toyotas (like you do). Frankly, I have to question whether you actually own a Toyota and what your real motives are for criticizing and denigrating Toyota products and their owners. It appears to me that you are just trolling for arguments.

Of course Toyota owners do not hate Toyota. I personally do not hate my microwave too. It is microwave.