electric cars

[Snagglefoot]

Charge times for the Tesla 85 kwhr battery pack are 20 minutes for 50%, 40 minutes for 80% and 75 minutes for a 100 % charge. This was off Wikipedia so I'm not going to be able to help with that accuracy.

The important issue here is most owners will be charging overnight at home and when on longer trips they'll manage their power requirements as needed.
For those who need to drive over 250 miles a day, I would agree you should just stay with an ICE vehicle.

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
How do I gas up my ICE cars get gas if there is no power?
If you had a solar battery storage you would have power, right?
I am not sure who is creating disasters, beyond PGE.


Don't they have backup generators for when the power goes out? And the whole power lines causing fires issue could have been prevented if they put the lines underground.



Below ground cabling is approx 10x more expensive and has it's own issues. Ain't gonna happen. PGE just needs to upgrade their transmission lines.


Deregulation was supposed to save California taxpayers bank, it appears to not work.

Of all the states with the lowest power bills (and most reliable power) most are strongly regulated.
Those with the highest cost and lowest reliability are all deregulated.
With both systems having one form of corruption or another as par for the coarse.

This is one of the few cases that
I agree with some of the old sentiments that certain parts of infrastructure are too important to be left to chance and need to be strongly regulated.


Water deed sales for example is another boondoggle waiting to blow.

Certain things belong in the public space.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Rmay635703
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
How do I gas up my ICE cars get gas if there is no power?
If you had a solar battery storage you would have power, right?
I am not sure who is creating disasters, beyond PGE.


Don't they have backup generators for when the power goes out? And the whole power lines causing fires issue could have been prevented if they put the lines underground.



Below ground cabling is approx 10x more expensive and has it's own issues. Ain't gonna happen. PGE just needs to upgrade their transmission lines.


Deregulation was supposed to save California taxpayers bank, it appears to not work.

Of all the states with the lowest power bills (and most reliable power) most are strongly regulated.
Those with the highest cost and lowest reliability are all deregulated.
With both systems having one form of corruption or another as par for the coarse.

This is one of the few cases that
I agree with some of the old sentiments that certain parts of infrastructure are too important to be left to chance and need to be strongly regulated.


Water deed sales for example is another boondoggle waiting to blow.

Certain things belong in the public space.



Power companies are highly regulated because they're deemed a public good. De-regulation typically only pertains to competition and if the state via regulation increases the barrier to entry then nothing has changed.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Power companies are highly regulated because they're deemed a public good.


Then they should be run by the government. Free electricity to everyone and paid for in your federal taxes. Just like roads are.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Power companies are highly regulated because they're deemed a public good.


Then they should be run by the government. Free electricity to everyone and paid for in your federal taxes. Just like roads are.


Not even the govt can hide from the laws of basic economics. As Milton Friedman once said, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[atikovi]

Yea but the government doesn't have to make a profit like the power companies do.

 

[sdowney717]

These electric cars wont work in California. Their grid goes down for winds. Those elected may force the issue by saying this or that ruling though.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Problem - Too many people for one.

Housing developments pushed out to the foothills where there shouldnt be housing developments.

Then they are $$$ and 10 feet from each other.

I could fit 8 homes on my lot up here in the woods.

Bunch of Idiots.

Look at Santa Clarita, CA on Google satellite map.

My Brother lives there, he moved form Jersey two decades ago..

 

[JeffKeryk]

When I got in the car yesterday....

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by E365
Serous question. Can you provide an example of another large, inhabited area with the same extremely dry, 75+ MPH winds in hard-to-access mountainous terrain such as they see with the Santa Ana and Diablo winds?

Come on. The Santa Ana winds are a yearly occurrence in California. Year in and year out. They are not a, "Historic Catastrophic Wind Event". You build your infrastructure around the climate it has to endure, period. They basically did not.

They could have, and should have provided funds through the years to keep those power lines clear from trees, branches, brush, and other materials that are causing this. They didn't. And a large part of the reason they didn't, is because California caves to most every whack job environmental group that comes down the pike. They have been constantly guilty of choosing environmental causes over their citizens needs, on a seemingly never ending basis.

Now unfortunately, it's citizens are paying the price for their impractical short sightedness . And the state, and PG&E are all scurrying about, trying to come up with excuses. There aren't any. This will continue to happen until that state stops wasting money, and gets practical with their thinking. And I seriously doubt anyone is going to be holding their breath waiting for that to happen.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Yea but the government doesn't have to make a profit like the power companies do.


Profit becomes supplanted by demand constraints which will cause a shortage. Tragedy of the Commons. In any case under the current system rates are set by the local/state regulator which is a huge issue but that's for another time.

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Pelican
Once the electric companies have you on their hook you'll be longing for the time when gas was $5 a gallon. Often they don't have enough electricity for the household A/C, imagine if all the cars were plug-in electrics.
We are going electric, no doubt on that, but the answer is NOT the plug in, it takes too long, but the hydrogen fuel cell and Toyota already has cars sold in California.
Greta said that if we could [censored] into the tank we could all operate on gas, but then they'll gouge you on vaseline. There ain't no free lunch.

baloney....you don't know that. In a capitalist system, gouging only works when there is no alternative. Gasoline is the alternative, and not going away anytime soon.


It's not that simple under capitalism. You have oligopolies, entry and exit costs, political influence, etc. that are all part of the capitalist framework.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Alfred_B
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Pelican
Once the electric companies have you on their hook you'll be longing for the time when gas was $5 a gallon. Often they don't have enough electricity for the household A/C, imagine if all the cars were plug-in electrics.
We are going electric, no doubt on that, but the answer is NOT the plug in, it takes too long, but the hydrogen fuel cell and Toyota already has cars sold in California.
Greta said that if we could [censored] into the tank we could all operate on gas, but then they'll gouge you on vaseline. There ain't no free lunch.

baloney....you don't know that. In a capitalist system, gouging only works when there is no alternative. Gasoline is the alternative, and not going away anytime soon.


It's not that simple under capitalism. You have oligopolies, entry and exit costs, political influence, etc. that are all part of the capitalist framework.


This is a common misconception which gets parroted all the time. Capitalism does not depend on any of those things you mentioned and the current system is not even close to being capitalistic.

 

[Alfred_B]

I purposefully didn't say "depend".

Show me a capitalist system where these are not part of the framework - not a shallow anecdotal observation masquerading as a scientific study, though. After all, the system has existed for a couple of hundred years and should be mature enough to identify what its framework is.

You may go back to the hay day of the Robber Baron era if you want to remove the welfare state influence.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Short of some miraculous and unknown new battery technology, the EV will not replicate the capability of fuel powered vehicles. Example: A Nissan Altima can achieve 600 miles of highway range at 85MPH. The best $120,000 EV can do about 240 miles at that speed.

Originally Posted by Rmay635703
Easy math, EVs are cheap in the long run if they are managed properly.


That's only because the cost of residential and commercial electricity is cheap in many locations. When it comes to actual energy BTU's consumed per mile, EV's are at best, 29% efficient. A full 20% less efficient than the 36% efficient Prius.

In locations where electricity is expensive, it's cheaper per mile, to drive a "dual fuel" (gas and electric) Chevy Volt on gas. 11c per mile on electric and 5c per mile on gas.


The issue is that vast majority of drivers can't/won't drive a car 600 miles straight. So when one stops for lunch you can plug in an electric car. Many people don't have 300 mile bladders.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by CKN
......... Many people don't have 300 mile bladders.

It doesn't take 8 hours to drain your bladder.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Alfred_B
I purposefully didn't say "depend".

Show me a capitalist system where these are not part of the framework - not a shallow anecdotal observation masquerading as a scientific study, though. After all, the system has existed for a couple of hundred years and should be mature enough to identify what its framework is.

You may go back to the hay day of the Robber Baron era if you want to remove the welfare state influence.



By definition the current system in the US is NOT capitalistic and has been incorrectly labeled as such. Sure there were periods throughout US history where the economy was comparatively more/less capitalistic vs today but it's a matter of degree. Capitalism doesn't require the "framework" you mentioned. In fact it goes against capitalism.

Just remember this. "Bad" monopolies only exist because they have the "support" of the state.

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by atikovi
Yea but the government doesn't have to make a profit like the power companies do.


Profit becomes supplanted by demand constraints which will cause a shortage. Tragedy of the Commons. In any case under the current system rates are set by the local/state regulator which is a huge issue but that's for another time.


In my area the power utility just gets the regulators to OK new unnecessary construction so we have excessive capacity that the rate payers have to pay for plus profit.

They then convince regulators to pay remove a fully functional hydro dam to allow for " free flowing water."

Then an area downstream inevitably floods and other dams need to be built higher or repair.

Rinse, repeat.


As stated every system has some form of corruption, ours is slightly less blatant but still very wasteful just to deliver mandatory profit increases each year.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
.......What gets me is people making simplistic statements like, cut the trees. Don't people understand this is a huge, multi-billion dollar problem?

It's for sure and for certain California, along with all the nit wit politicians who run it didn't.... And they should have. This situation didn't develop overnight. Or from a single wind storm. It took years of neglect, coupled with wasteful spending, and kissing up to idiotic environmental groups, who can't find their rears with both hands and a map.

Just look at how that state is allowing it's homeless population to fester and grow completely unchecked. With absolutely zero solutions being either planned, let alone applied. And now we should be surprised they have electrical power grid problems, after neglecting their infrastructure for well over half a century?

While all the while they're striving and spending like drunken sailors to save the whales and the poor people. California is their own worst enemy.

 

[KrisZ]

California is an interesting state for sure. When I first moved in, I could not believe how many houses, that would count for shaks up north, had solar panels installed. All for "saving" on electricity.
Forget improving the insulation, windows, attic and simply conserving. Solar panels are the way to go to save the planet. Most truly believe this.

Then you have the ones that install solar to offset their jacuzzis, keep their house at 70f and have lights on 24/7.

All of these solar installations are heavily subsidized of course, no matter the motivations behind installing solar panels. So guess where all this money comes from? The rate payers, who else?

This creates quite an interesting relationship. As the installations increase, so do the costs for subsidies, but then the electricity rates have to go up to make up the difference. The rate increases push others, that were more reluctant to go solar, into leveraging solar against increasing rates, so they join the market further pushing the subsidies and rates to be higher.

Quite a nice circle they have created there and most people don't even see the that solar and wind actually are the cause of increased electricity rates.

Now we have another problem, since most if the money goes towards subsidies, very little is left for maintenance of the electric grid, never mind expansion of it to accommodate electric cars.

But that will be "solved" by pushing for more wind and solar and increasing electricity rates.