Deleted vs Non-Deleted UOA

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Originally Posted by bbslider001


No sniveling wienies allowed. Seriously, not the place for it. No emissions police welcome.

Why man, why? Some of us like clean air. I agree some diesel systems were bad but they are getting better. I've had no issues with about 200k on 2 different 6.7 Fords non deleted. Both sides of the issue should be able to be discussed without drama. I'm no greenie and I doubt global warming but I hate unnecessary pollution. JMO
 
Originally Posted by BeerCan
Originally Posted by bbslider001


No sniveling wienies allowed. Seriously, not the place for it. No emissions police welcome.

Why man, why? Some of us like clean air. I agree some diesel systems were bad but they are getting better. I've had no issues with about 200k on 2 different 6.7 Fords non deleted. Both sides of the issue should be able to be discussed without drama. I'm no greenie and I doubt global warming but I hate unnecessary pollution. JMO

I agree the new diesels have come leaps and bounds but I'll argue that it's a case by case basis on to delete or keep the emissions systems
 
I don't care about deleting or not deleting, but I do care about someone coming in with their biased and policing opinion when it does not even address the question originally asked. I didn't start the drama, but sure have no problem putting an end to it and remaining on task....which is deleted vs.non-deleted....not federal or non-federal policies on such.
 
Originally Posted by bbslider001
I don't care about deleting or not deleting, but I do care about someone coming in with their biased and policing opinion when it does not even address the question originally asked. I didn't start the drama, but sure have no problem putting an end to it and remaining on task....which is deleted vs.non-deleted....not federal or non-federal policies on such.


Good gosh man. You're the one taking this off topic over and over again.
 
So it appears from my endless and less than scientific "research", dpf might not cause as much wear as egr, might this be correct? Any more pre/post uoa anyone want to share?
 
Originally Posted by oakaro68
So it appears from my endless and less than scientific "research", dpf might not cause as much wear as egr, might this be correct? Any more pre/post uoa anyone want to share?


I think you really mean "SCR might not cause as much wear as EGR", since those are the two that are an either/or, both used to reduce NOx. DPF is present with either one, but does have to work a lot harder and regenerate more often when used with high-dose EGR than when used with SCR. SO if that's what you meant, then I'd say its unquestionably correct that SCR is less damaging to the engine than high-dose EGR to meet NOx requirements.

DPF in and of itself isn't particularly harmful to the engine, especially if DPF regeneration is implemented with a "7th injector" in the exhaust plumbing rather than injecting into a cylinder on the exhaust stroke. SCR also happens downstream of the turbo and doesn't directly affect the engine. EGR, on the other hand, basically snuffs out complete combustion in the cylinder, trading higher CO and particulates for lower NOx, and then over-working the DPF and oxidation catalyst to clean up the mess it made. Plus it demands an EGR cooler to with all the attendant problems that come with those (higher load on the cooling system, boiling coolant in the cooler and cooking abrasive additives out of the coolant, clogging the cooler with carbon on the exhaust side, etc.). At least DPF with SCR moves ALL the monkey-business downstream of the turbo. About the only negative effect the little SCR/DPF chemical plant in the exhaust plumbing can have (directly) on the engine is higher backpressure, and that's not nearly as directly damaging as the huge increase in particulates from high-dose EGR, and the fuel dilution and higher exhaust temps from exhaust-stroke injection for DPF regen. Those things were band-aid solutions from day 1.
 
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Originally Posted by oakaro68
So it appears from my endless and less than scientific "research", dpf might not cause as much wear as egr, might this be correct? Any more pre/post uoa anyone want to share?


EGR recirculates some combustion gases back into the combustion chamber in order to reduce combustion temps which in turn reduces the amount of NOx that the SCR has to convert.

I suppose the argument one could make is that there's wear because some soot is being recirculated back into the combustion chamber but the engine and engine oil should be designed for that. UOA's would also indicate excessive soot loading if there was a problem.

EGR can be a maintenance nightmare for the part itself as well as the intake and it reduces power. It's why people delete them.

DPF is downstream of the combustion chamber. It's just a particle trap.
 
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2011 LML deleted. Kms on oil 15,000 truck 171,000 Hrs on oil 224 truck 2750
Duron SAE 40

Alum 15
Chrom 1
copper 1
iron 6
lead 0
silicon 5
silver 0
nickel 0

Additives

sodium 2
boron 15
calcium 1086
magn 744
Zn 1445
P 1127

oxid/AN .04
soot 0.5
water/fuel/ glycol neg
vis@40 124 new 132
vis @ 100 13.7 new 14.2

Aluminum has always been high on this engine.
It could be from the engine case and heads
 
In Blackstone's reports, where is the soot shown? Would that be insolubles?
 
Originally Posted by userfriendly
Deleted LML UOA showed 6 ppm Fe after 9,500 miles using Duron SAE 40. The oil looked clean, none added and the truck got 25% better fuel economy.

Arrest me.


Curious User as to which tuner are you using, 25% better economy is pretty impressive.
With my 2011 LML I did a full delete and installed a H&S tuner in 2012, and on any of the 4 settings (which give me about the same economy light footing it) I'm about 15% better, of which about half of that is from no regen.
 
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Originally Posted by CONMCK
Originally Posted by userfriendly
Deleted LML UOA showed 6 ppm Fe after 9,500 miles using Duron SAE 40. The oil looked clean, none added and the truck got 25% better fuel economy.

Arrest me.


Curious User as to which tuner are you using, 25% better economy is pretty impressive.


That's the beauty of common rail injection.
 
25% For me would be ~4.25 mpg more. I'm sceptical, not doubting your claim but I don't think I would get the same result.
 
Originally Posted by BeerCan
25% For me would be ~4.25 mpg more. I'm sceptical, not doubting your claim but I don't think I would get the same result.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I'd expect about 1 mpg better in my truck. That's about how much I lose off the average with a regen.
 
The tuner is a Bully Dog set on economy/towing tune. The big change is that the fuel economy is consistently good, not all over the map as before depending on re-gens and duty cycles.
I don't have to worry now of the engine in re-gen mode pushing me through stop signs and red lights on icy days.
The engine needs further tuning. It doesn't start on below freezing mornings as well as before, sometimes taking 2 or 3 tries. It's likely too rich, and no heated intake air.
Also exhaust braking isn't as good as stock. The truck holds higher gears climbing hills. It will hold 6th climbing a 7% grade at 65 mph.
It has a muffler on the 5" exhaust, and Banks cold air intake.

The 2018 3500 High Country L5P I bought my daughter is better stock than the deleted LML in every aspect except fuel economy.
 
Originally Posted by userfriendly
The tuner is a Bully Dog set on economy/towing tune. The big change is that the fuel economy is consistently good, not all over the map as before depending on re-gens and duty cycles.
I don't have to worry now of the engine in re-gen mode pushing me through stop signs and red lights on icy days.
The engine needs further tuning. It doesn't start on below freezing mornings as well as before, sometimes taking 2 or 3 tries. It's likely too rich, and no heated intake air.
Also exhaust braking isn't as good as stock. The truck holds higher gears climbing hills. It will hold 6th climbing a 7% grade at 65 mph.
It has a muffler on the 5" exhaust, and Banks cold air intake.

The 2018 3500 High Country L5P I bought my daughter is better stock than the deleted LML in every aspect except fuel economy.


Holding 6th gear climbing a 7% grade, I'm assuming your pulling a trailer??? Please tell me your LML is not challenged climbing a 7% grade in 6th gear at 65 mph empty..
 
I have no way of asking it.

3.73 gear, .63 OD, 35.4 od tire works out to be about 1,450 rpm @65 mph. Stock it might downshift to 5th.
Some of the fuel economy improvement likely comes as a result of the truck staying in a higher gear.
 
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