My 6.0 was deleted at the beginning of the year and was tuned for that, now if I want to upgrade to larger injectors or a turbo I'll have to live with a check engine light, because of my missing EGR valve. Sucks but I blame some of this on the irresponsible teens, even some younger adults, who's parents bought them a brodozer and decided to roll obnoxiously large clouds of coal.
Deleted vs Non-Deleted UOA
- Thread starter oakaro68
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Originally Posted by BeerCan
I like clean air. That being said I don't rag on people who delete, it's a free country. I have a feeling if it gets to common the EPA is going to find a way to catch people but that's another discussion.
Personally the small changes people see in their UOA is not enough to convince me that the differences are going to make an appreciable change in the longevity of the engines. I don't thing fuel dilution up to 5% is an issue in the long run if you are using the correct oil and following reasonable UOA. Now I agree some of the older systems were not up to snuff and caused issues but the newer diesels seem to have everything worked out and run mostly trouble free. I have a lot of miles on the 6.7 Ford between the 2 trucks I've owned with the scr system and have had only minor issues. One of my trucks had a cracked dpf but it was covered under warranty as a manufacturer defect. My original 2011 F350 is close to 200k now with the current owner and as far as I know it has had no problems related to the emissions system.
Free does not mean anarchy.
Problem with diesel engines, especially modern one with DI and high pressures is NOx, not CO2. CO2 in diesels is anyway less of a problem than in comparable gasoline engines.
Here in CO they started to go after people who temper with emissions, and in most counties in the Front Range one cannot register diesel vehicle if emission equipment is not there. When I bought BMW X5 diesel before registering they inspect emissions physically. Guy from health dept. would do that. After that, depending on year of manufacturing, one would have to do regular emission testing.
I like clean air. That being said I don't rag on people who delete, it's a free country. I have a feeling if it gets to common the EPA is going to find a way to catch people but that's another discussion.
Personally the small changes people see in their UOA is not enough to convince me that the differences are going to make an appreciable change in the longevity of the engines. I don't thing fuel dilution up to 5% is an issue in the long run if you are using the correct oil and following reasonable UOA. Now I agree some of the older systems were not up to snuff and caused issues but the newer diesels seem to have everything worked out and run mostly trouble free. I have a lot of miles on the 6.7 Ford between the 2 trucks I've owned with the scr system and have had only minor issues. One of my trucks had a cracked dpf but it was covered under warranty as a manufacturer defect. My original 2011 F350 is close to 200k now with the current owner and as far as I know it has had no problems related to the emissions system.
Free does not mean anarchy.
Problem with diesel engines, especially modern one with DI and high pressures is NOx, not CO2. CO2 in diesels is anyway less of a problem than in comparable gasoline engines.
Here in CO they started to go after people who temper with emissions, and in most counties in the Front Range one cannot register diesel vehicle if emission equipment is not there. When I bought BMW X5 diesel before registering they inspect emissions physically. Guy from health dept. would do that. After that, depending on year of manufacturing, one would have to do regular emission testing.
Yes I agree. I guess I mean I am not going to take it upon myself to police or berate people. I certainly do not agree with any argument someone puts forth as a reason to delete. I found that their mind is already made up and they don't listen to reason.
Originally Posted by oakaro68
Well I'm mainly just curious if engine wear is improved by deleting or is it not affected. Not really trying to make a case here for removing anything.
Has anyone gone significant miles on their truck with intact emission equipment yet?
I drove a 2017 freight shaker cascadia with 718k miles on it. If I recall it was the DD15 truck would pull like a freight train but was falling apart but I never had an issue with the emissions on it
Well I'm mainly just curious if engine wear is improved by deleting or is it not affected. Not really trying to make a case here for removing anything.
Has anyone gone significant miles on their truck with intact emission equipment yet?
I drove a 2017 freight shaker cascadia with 718k miles on it. If I recall it was the DD15 truck would pull like a freight train but was falling apart but I never had an issue with the emissions on it
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I like clean air. That being said I don't rag on people who delete, it's a free country. I have a feeling if it gets to common the EPA is going to find a way to catch people but that's another discussion.
Not free to violate Federal emissions laws. Its way too common in my town and surrounding area.
Thank you for keeping your emissions equipment.
But Now I see this flagrant disregard, if I'm in a "mood" I'm going to record and send tag numbers of violators
I drive behind in my garbage VW Jetta to the Sheriffs office. Of course they will do nothing.
How about we have emissions rules sanctuary areas?
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I like clean air. That being said I don't rag on people who delete, it's a free country. I have a feeling if it gets to common the EPA is going to find a way to catch people but that's another discussion.
Not free to violate Federal emissions laws. Its way too common in my town and surrounding area.
Thank you for keeping your emissions equipment.
But Now I see this flagrant disregard, if I'm in a "mood" I'm going to record and send tag numbers of violators
I drive behind in my garbage VW Jetta to the Sheriffs office. Of course they will do nothing.
How about we have emissions rules sanctuary areas?
Originally Posted by oakaro68
Well I'm mainly just curious if engine wear is improved by deleting or is it not affected. Not really trying to make a case here for removing anything.
Has anyone gone significant miles on their truck with intact emission equipment yet?
I did not on a truck, but did on BMW E61 525d, 485k km in Europe. Still was able to do 145mph at that km.
Well I'm mainly just curious if engine wear is improved by deleting or is it not affected. Not really trying to make a case here for removing anything.
Has anyone gone significant miles on their truck with intact emission equipment yet?
I did not on a truck, but did on BMW E61 525d, 485k km in Europe. Still was able to do 145mph at that km.
Originally Posted by Rglossip
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I like clean air. That being said I don't rag on people who delete, it's a free country. I have a feeling if it gets to common the EPA is going to find a way to catch people but that's another discussion.
Not free to violate Federal emissions laws. Its way too common in my town and surrounding area.
Thank you for keeping your emissions equipment.
But Now I see this flagrant disregard, if I'm in a "mood" I'm going to record and send tag numbers of violators
I drive behind in my garbage VW Jetta to the Sheriffs office. Of course they will do nothing.
How about we have emissions rules sanctuary areas?
I though KS is generally rules free?
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I like clean air. That being said I don't rag on people who delete, it's a free country. I have a feeling if it gets to common the EPA is going to find a way to catch people but that's another discussion.
Not free to violate Federal emissions laws. Its way too common in my town and surrounding area.
Thank you for keeping your emissions equipment.
But Now I see this flagrant disregard, if I'm in a "mood" I'm going to record and send tag numbers of violators
I drive behind in my garbage VW Jetta to the Sheriffs office. Of course they will do nothing.
How about we have emissions rules sanctuary areas?
I though KS is generally rules free?
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
It is really all a moot point at this stage, at least for those who have not deleted emissions on their vehicles. No reputable tuner is doing delete tuning anymore. Kory at PPEI was the last holdout and he stopped in mid September in a deal he reached with the EPA that kept him from getting taken out. PDI got smacked for 1.1 million in fines. Banks dropped delete tuning some time ago. Bully Dog also dropped off some time ago after they got taken to the wood shed by the EPA. No one is that can be depended on is going to further crack ECM codes to do this sort of thing. The EPA is on a mission with its National Compliance Initiative 2020. It has been reported that the EPA has even gotten its hand on invoices of customers that have purchased delete kits and tuning. Now, I don't think that means the EPA will start busting down doors, but it could affect being able to renew licenses on vehicles unless they can be shown to be in compliance. We will just have to watch and see how that plays out.
But deletes are no longer a viable option, that is, unless one want to trust thousands of dollars of investment to Charlie's Shade Tree Tuning run out of his garage. That is a choice.
Nothing but the truth here. These large scale tuners are now investing in epa certification testing facilities so that emissions compliant tunes can still be sold for enthusiasts.
It is really all a moot point at this stage, at least for those who have not deleted emissions on their vehicles. No reputable tuner is doing delete tuning anymore. Kory at PPEI was the last holdout and he stopped in mid September in a deal he reached with the EPA that kept him from getting taken out. PDI got smacked for 1.1 million in fines. Banks dropped delete tuning some time ago. Bully Dog also dropped off some time ago after they got taken to the wood shed by the EPA. No one is that can be depended on is going to further crack ECM codes to do this sort of thing. The EPA is on a mission with its National Compliance Initiative 2020. It has been reported that the EPA has even gotten its hand on invoices of customers that have purchased delete kits and tuning. Now, I don't think that means the EPA will start busting down doors, but it could affect being able to renew licenses on vehicles unless they can be shown to be in compliance. We will just have to watch and see how that plays out.
But deletes are no longer a viable option, that is, unless one want to trust thousands of dollars of investment to Charlie's Shade Tree Tuning run out of his garage. That is a choice.
Nothing but the truth here. These large scale tuners are now investing in epa certification testing facilities so that emissions compliant tunes can still be sold for enthusiasts.
Originally Posted by Too3zln
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
It is really all a moot point at this stage, at least for those who have not deleted emissions on their vehicles. No reputable tuner is doing delete tuning anymore. Kory at PPEI was the last holdout and he stopped in mid September in a deal he reached with the EPA that kept him from getting taken out. PDI got smacked for 1.1 million in fines. Banks dropped delete tuning some time ago. Bully Dog also dropped off some time ago after they got taken to the wood shed by the EPA. No one is that can be depended on is going to further crack ECM codes to do this sort of thing. The EPA is on a mission with its National Compliance Initiative 2020. It has been reported that the EPA has even gotten its hand on invoices of customers that have purchased delete kits and tuning. Now, I don't think that means the EPA will start busting down doors, but it could affect being able to renew licenses on vehicles unless they can be shown to be in compliance. We will just have to watch and see how that plays out.
But deletes are no longer a viable option, that is, unless one want to trust thousands of dollars of investment to Charlie's Shade Tree Tuning run out of his garage. That is a choice.
Nothing but the truth here. These large scale tuners are now investing in epa certification testing facilities so that emissions compliant tunes can still be sold for enthusiasts.
The good news is that diesel emissions have come a long way as far as reliability and impact to performance, just like they did on gasoline engines through the 80s and 90s. DEF alone is a game changer as far as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
It is really all a moot point at this stage, at least for those who have not deleted emissions on their vehicles. No reputable tuner is doing delete tuning anymore. Kory at PPEI was the last holdout and he stopped in mid September in a deal he reached with the EPA that kept him from getting taken out. PDI got smacked for 1.1 million in fines. Banks dropped delete tuning some time ago. Bully Dog also dropped off some time ago after they got taken to the wood shed by the EPA. No one is that can be depended on is going to further crack ECM codes to do this sort of thing. The EPA is on a mission with its National Compliance Initiative 2020. It has been reported that the EPA has even gotten its hand on invoices of customers that have purchased delete kits and tuning. Now, I don't think that means the EPA will start busting down doors, but it could affect being able to renew licenses on vehicles unless they can be shown to be in compliance. We will just have to watch and see how that plays out.
But deletes are no longer a viable option, that is, unless one want to trust thousands of dollars of investment to Charlie's Shade Tree Tuning run out of his garage. That is a choice.
Nothing but the truth here. These large scale tuners are now investing in epa certification testing facilities so that emissions compliant tunes can still be sold for enthusiasts.
The good news is that diesel emissions have come a long way as far as reliability and impact to performance, just like they did on gasoline engines through the 80s and 90s. DEF alone is a game changer as far as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted by Rglossip
Lots of freedom in rural Kansas.
Like driving 50 in 20mph school zone? Amounts to the same thing: breaking the law!
Lots of freedom in rural Kansas.
Like driving 50 in 20mph school zone? Amounts to the same thing: breaking the law!
I read an article a long time ago, I am trying to find it to post. It was comparing the emissions of the 7.3 vs the 6.7
Bottom line if I remember correctly it takes something like 70 of the 6.7 to equal the emissions of the 7.3. That's a big number, I don't know how true it is and I am looking for the article to back my statement,
Bottom line if I remember correctly it takes something like 70 of the 6.7 to equal the emissions of the 7.3. That's a big number, I don't know how true it is and I am looking for the article to back my statement,
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I read an article a long time ago, I am trying to find it to post. It was comparing the emissions of the 7.3 vs the 6.7
Bottom line if I remember correctly it takes something like 70 of the 6.7 to equal the emissions of the 7.3. That's a big number, I don't know how true it is and I am looking for the article to back my statement,
If you're talking about NOx, that doesn't surprise me.
I read an article a long time ago, I am trying to find it to post. It was comparing the emissions of the 7.3 vs the 6.7
Bottom line if I remember correctly it takes something like 70 of the 6.7 to equal the emissions of the 7.3. That's a big number, I don't know how true it is and I am looking for the article to back my statement,
If you're talking about NOx, that doesn't surprise me.
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by Too3zln
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
It is really all a moot point at this stage, at least for those who have not deleted emissions on their vehicles. No reputable tuner is doing delete tuning anymore. Kory at PPEI was the last holdout and he stopped in mid September in a deal he reached with the EPA that kept him from getting taken out. PDI got smacked for 1.1 million in fines. Banks dropped delete tuning some time ago. Bully Dog also dropped off some time ago after they got taken to the wood shed by the EPA. No one is that can be depended on is going to further crack ECM codes to do this sort of thing. The EPA is on a mission with its National Compliance Initiative 2020. It has been reported that the EPA has even gotten its hand on invoices of customers that have purchased delete kits and tuning. Now, I don't think that means the EPA will start busting down doors, but it could affect being able to renew licenses on vehicles unless they can be shown to be in compliance. We will just have to watch and see how that plays out.
But deletes are no longer a viable option, that is, unless one want to trust thousands of dollars of investment to Charlie's Shade Tree Tuning run out of his garage. That is a choice.
Nothing but the truth here. These large scale tuners are now investing in epa certification testing facilities so that emissions compliant tunes can still be sold for enthusiasts.
The good news is that diesel emissions have come a long way as far as reliability and impact to performance, just like they did on gasoline engines through the 80s and 90s. DEF alone is a game changer as far as I'm concerned.
The scale is considerably different. All the gas folks really have had to deal with was EGR, Catalytic Converters, and O2 sensors. The level of diesel emissions complexity makes the gasser side seem child's play. No gasoline car has even the concept of SCR with DEF injection and DPF with regen operations. And modern diesels have enough sensors to keep even the best computer processor working full tilt monitoring and adjusting the parameters. For most of the time with gasser emission growth curve, the most technical thing going on was electronic ignition. Most of the bugs had been worked out of emission compliance by the time computer controlled gas engines showed up. And emissions equipment failures on a gasser might generate a check engine light, but hardly ever will the ECM derate the vehicle to a crawl or shut it totally down along the road. A totally different scenario with diesel emissions. It is more common than people realize how modern emissions diesels will derate and totally shut down over the least little sensor throwing a tantrum.
But the many of the heavy tow truck companies in my area dearly love the new emissions laden diesels. Has cause substantial growth in their operations having to go tow trucks into the shop due to emissions equipment issues. I know several of these tow truck operators and they are smiling all the way to the bank.
Originally Posted by Too3zln
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
It is really all a moot point at this stage, at least for those who have not deleted emissions on their vehicles. No reputable tuner is doing delete tuning anymore. Kory at PPEI was the last holdout and he stopped in mid September in a deal he reached with the EPA that kept him from getting taken out. PDI got smacked for 1.1 million in fines. Banks dropped delete tuning some time ago. Bully Dog also dropped off some time ago after they got taken to the wood shed by the EPA. No one is that can be depended on is going to further crack ECM codes to do this sort of thing. The EPA is on a mission with its National Compliance Initiative 2020. It has been reported that the EPA has even gotten its hand on invoices of customers that have purchased delete kits and tuning. Now, I don't think that means the EPA will start busting down doors, but it could affect being able to renew licenses on vehicles unless they can be shown to be in compliance. We will just have to watch and see how that plays out.
But deletes are no longer a viable option, that is, unless one want to trust thousands of dollars of investment to Charlie's Shade Tree Tuning run out of his garage. That is a choice.
Nothing but the truth here. These large scale tuners are now investing in epa certification testing facilities so that emissions compliant tunes can still be sold for enthusiasts.
The good news is that diesel emissions have come a long way as far as reliability and impact to performance, just like they did on gasoline engines through the 80s and 90s. DEF alone is a game changer as far as I'm concerned.
The scale is considerably different. All the gas folks really have had to deal with was EGR, Catalytic Converters, and O2 sensors. The level of diesel emissions complexity makes the gasser side seem child's play. No gasoline car has even the concept of SCR with DEF injection and DPF with regen operations. And modern diesels have enough sensors to keep even the best computer processor working full tilt monitoring and adjusting the parameters. For most of the time with gasser emission growth curve, the most technical thing going on was electronic ignition. Most of the bugs had been worked out of emission compliance by the time computer controlled gas engines showed up. And emissions equipment failures on a gasser might generate a check engine light, but hardly ever will the ECM derate the vehicle to a crawl or shut it totally down along the road. A totally different scenario with diesel emissions. It is more common than people realize how modern emissions diesels will derate and totally shut down over the least little sensor throwing a tantrum.
But the many of the heavy tow truck companies in my area dearly love the new emissions laden diesels. Has cause substantial growth in their operations having to go tow trucks into the shop due to emissions equipment issues. I know several of these tow truck operators and they are smiling all the way to the bank.
Exactly.
I deleted my 2011 LML the minute it was off warranty. I cannae afford tow truck bills, rental cars, hotel and restaurant meals that GM paid for in the past.
On top of that, speed restricted at -30F for hours across the Canadian prairies,
The dealerships were fantastic, getting me back and running asap.
I have the fuel economy tune, 25% improvement and no black smoke.
I deleted my 2011 LML the minute it was off warranty. I cannae afford tow truck bills, rental cars, hotel and restaurant meals that GM paid for in the past.
On top of that, speed restricted at -30F for hours across the Canadian prairies,
The dealerships were fantastic, getting me back and running asap.
I have the fuel economy tune, 25% improvement and no black smoke.
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by oakaro68
Bitog friends,
Do we have any hard facts that deleting a diesel's emission components will actually prolong the life in any measurable amount?
I'm most interested in facts for the newer Duramax engines with scr, dpf and all that jazz but am curious about the 'in cylinder' regeneration models as well.
It seems that, from performing uoa on my factory L5P, that the wear numbers have been on point/low.
Are you considering violating Federal and State law on a public forum?
I'm guessing that one modded diesel truck in my town makes more Nox and C02 than all the VW diesel cars put together ever sold in this state. Then there are Hundreds of them.
I hated the double wall choking down pipe on my Powerstroke F350 W/T in the 90's, But I didn't mess with it.
I just sold the thing; too Noisy and smelly.
No sniveling wienies allowed. Seriously, not the place for it. No emissions police welcome.
Originally Posted by oakaro68
Bitog friends,
Do we have any hard facts that deleting a diesel's emission components will actually prolong the life in any measurable amount?
I'm most interested in facts for the newer Duramax engines with scr, dpf and all that jazz but am curious about the 'in cylinder' regeneration models as well.
It seems that, from performing uoa on my factory L5P, that the wear numbers have been on point/low.
Are you considering violating Federal and State law on a public forum?
I'm guessing that one modded diesel truck in my town makes more Nox and C02 than all the VW diesel cars put together ever sold in this state. Then there are Hundreds of them.
I hated the double wall choking down pipe on my Powerstroke F350 W/T in the 90's, But I didn't mess with it.
I just sold the thing; too Noisy and smelly.
No sniveling wienies allowed. Seriously, not the place for it. No emissions police welcome.
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