Rotella T4

[Needshave]

I have been talking with shell regarding a suitable oil for my old push rod engine, which is a 4.9L F150.

I have been using a conventional 10w30, which is what Ford specifies for that engine. I don't want to use the high mileage oils or synthetic oils! The engine is very strong and smooth but with a lot of tappet noise. To remedy the tappet noise I have been adding Lucas oil conditioner or stabilizer, which I typically never do. But she seems to like the thicker oil and quiets down to where you can nearly hear the old engine run. She now has 141k on the clock.

As I said I have been talking with Shell/Rotella, describing the engines reaction to the 10w30 as I did above. Shell lubricious expert was brought into the discussion and I ask him his thoughts about going to a heavier weight oil (10w40 or 15w40) which it seems to enjoy.(eliminating the Lucas oil Stabilizer) and going to diesel oil which has the zinc and phosphorus the push rod engine needs.

The shell lubricity expert came back saying they would not recommend going to a heavier weight oil sine the manufacturer defined 10w30. He would recommend going to a Rotella T4 10w30, which contains higher levels of phosphorus and Zinc which is what the engine needs, if I didn't have a Catalytic Converter.

I responded with, being a 96 it certainly has a Cat. So given that it is entirely stock with Cat what would be his recommendations to eliminate the tappet noise that is so prevalent with Straight Valvoline 10w30 and no Lucas.

He said as what is best for the longevity of the engine would be Rotella T4 10w30, but as far as the potential plugging of the Cat, it would be somewhat uncertain, but he though it would be the lesser of two evils.

So that's where I'm at! Do I just continue with10w30 with a Lucas oil stabilizer additive, do I go to a heavier 10w40 conventional oil, do I go with a diesel oil that give me the zinc and phosphorous with a weight of 10w30 or go to 15w40 diesel oil? It's a tough question. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts.

 

[ka9mnx]

I bought my F150 4.9L with 180k miles. It, too, came with lifter noise. Solution? Replace the lifters. Easy and cheap job. Remove the block side covers reveals the lifters for easy replacement. I've been running 5w-30 since.

 

[krismoriah72]

I sold my dads F150 with the 4.9 with around 300K after he passed. I have worked on a few... sounds like you have a sticky lifter. or like i have seen in many of them spark plugs loose.

I would scratch the lucas. Instead i would probably first check your plugs, then try some light cleaning to see if the lifters are just a little gummed.

I wouldnt think too much on the zinc issue.. instead i would just go with a 10w30 like havoline or pyb and give MMO (marvel mystery oil) a run to see if the lifters respond to some cleaning.

Unless you are burning oil like crazy the Rotella is a non issue with the cats.

 

[ka9mnx]

About half of my lifters were collapsed.

 

[jhs914]

I have a friend whose 300,000 mile 5.3 Silverado had a horrible lifter clatter, even with thick oil. I changed his oil and added a bottle of Liqui Moly 20004 Hydraulic Lifter Additive and it was like magic. A few days later and the lifter noise disappeared. I haven't done another oil change since so I don't know if it needs a bottle every oil change but it is less than $10 a bottle if it does.

 

[Needshave]

Here is some morr characteristics of the engine. When she first starts, very quiet. Then as she warms up I start getting the tappet noise. It's not one lifter making the noise, it's all of them, then as she warms up to operating temps she will quiet down. With the Lucas in it, a heavier oil, the chatter is pretty much gone, then within a few days it will be totally gone and I won't hear it at all in any if the heat ranges I described above.
I don't like using theLucas, it just seems very very thick but the engine loves it.

 

[bubbatime]

I ran 10W40 high mileage oil in that engine years back when I had one. These OLD engines love a 40 weight oil!! That engine was designed in the 60's!

 

[A_Harman]

Valvoline VR1 10w30. The cat in your 1996 truck is probably inoperative anyway.

 

[Needshave]

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Valvoline VR1 10w30. The cat in your 1996 truck is probably inoperative anyway.


It's quite possible the Cat in the 96 is inoperative, but it's not plugged. That it not get plugged, is my ultimate concern.

 

[Oldswagon]

Shell mentions using Rotella T4 in the first post. I have been using this in an old stock 350 Chevy with a carb and a flat tappet cam. I noticed on the new bottle of T4 10W30 it does show that it meets any gas engine requirements anymore. The new bottle just shows CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 plus, CI-4 and CH-4. The old T4 had an SM rating.

So why no gas rating anymore? And is this still a good oil to be using in older American engines with flat tappet cams?

 

[Needshave]

Oldswagon:

Here is there direct quote from one of my conversations with them:

Thank You for reaching out the Shell Technical team. You are right that the Rotella T4 Triple Protection 10W-30 does not carry the API SN anymore. Previously heady duty engine oil manufacturers can claim that they meet the API SN provided that their product meets the CJ-4, however that is not the case with the API anymore. The push rod engine is a very special case as it requires a high zinc and high phosphorus type of lubricant for added wear protection to prevent premature wear on your flat tappet cams. For API SN however, one of it's requirements is a low phosphorus motor oil because newer engines have catalytic converters and high phosphorus may shorten the life of catalytic converters.
Since push rod engines are relatively old, they don't have catalytic converters that newer gasoline engines have. In conclusion, the Rotella T4 Triple Protection 10W-30 doesn't have API SN because of the low phosphorus requirement of the API SN standard, but since the requirement of Push Rod Engines is a high phosporus motor oil, you can use the Rotella T4 Triple Protection 10W-30 on your 4.9L push rod gasoline engine provided that it does not have a catalytic converter. What you can do is to call Ford and ask if the 4.9L Inline Pushrod gasoline engine of your 1996 F150 has a catalytic converter. If we can confirm with Ford that your engine doesn't have a catalytic converter, then you can use the Rotella T4 Triple Protection 10W-30.

End of Quote"
------
My response back to them:


Certainly, without a doubt, the 1996 4.9L does have a catalytic converter. SO where does that leave us. Is it a certainty the the T4 will cause catalytic converter problems? Plugging? If so is there another grade of oil or type that is acceptable to the catalytic converter as well as the longevity of the 4.9L. ?
-----------
and then their response back to me:

After thoroughly discussing your 1996 Ford F150 4.9L Inline 6 engine with one of our lubricant experts, it seems that the Rotella T4 10W-30 is still the best product for your 1996 Ford F 150 as the need for higher phosphorus is a priority in your engine.
-----------------
So I believe the oil hasn't changed, it is the same as it was, but a change to API's qualifying requirements for SN has changed and will no longer allow T4 to meet those new regulations to qualify.

Make conclusion, based upon their summary, is that it is a good oil for pushrod engines.........if your vehicle doesn't have a catalytic converter on it. But thats just my opinion.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I don't particularly trust the opinion of a Shell employee. What I do know is that in testing Rotella T4 15w-40 in a hydraulic flat tappet SBC, several of the cam lobes failed mic after only 15,000 miles. Here's a snippet from the results. Note that this cam wasn't very radical with just 236 duration @ .050" lift, .524" lift (w/ 1.6 rockers), and

 

[Needshave]

Thanks Rdy,

That is certainly an interesting bit of information. I was wondering if the SBC was started after rebuild with Rotella 4 or was the Rotella a later introduction. Either way its is a point of concern. I appreciate you making us aware of the data you have. ( and your service)

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by Needshave
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Valvoline VR1 10w30. The cat in your 1996 truck is probably inoperative anyway.


It's quite possible the Cat in the 96 is inoperative, but it's not plugged. That it not get plugged, is my ultimate concern.

Ehh....oils in 1996 were high on ZDDP anyway (API SG/SL/SJ)....stop bothering about that and use T4 in 10/15w40...

 

[Oldswagon]

Interesting stuff. So it sounds like Shell says T4 is a good oil for flat tappet engines despite the lack of a gas engine rating. FWIW, the old T4 bottle I have is only rated SM not SN. It seems Shell's only concern is the effect on catalytic converters. In my case, the car does have cats, but I am in a no smog check area, so I am not overly concerned about how well they function. I just changed the oil on my 350 and I am running Rotella 10W30 as I have for the last several years.

Rdy4War post some eye opening information too. However in that case I am assuming that is an aftermarket cam based on the specs. My stock 350 cam specs are considerably milder than that and in would imagine a Ford 4.9L six would have a pretty mild cam too.

So based on all this, is there an alternative to Rotella T4 forn old flat tappet pushrod engines? What is a good choice for someone running a modern high performance flat tappet cam?

 

[ka9mnx]

Your 4.9L engine, with it's low valve spring pressure's, DOES NOT need high Zn. I stopped worrying about this years ago after extensive research. Old high (and newer) performance engines will require higher Zn. I believe Moly has replaced Zn in modern oil.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Needshave
Thanks Rdy,

That is certainly an interesting bit of information. I was wondering if the SBC was started after rebuild with Rotella 4 or was the Rotella a later introduction. Either way its is a point of concern. I appreciate you making us aware of the data you have. ( and your service)


The engine was broken in on Driven BR40 and used Rotella T4 15w-40 from 250 miles onward.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Oldswagon
Interesting stuff. So it sounds like Shell says T4 is a good oil for flat tappet engines despite the lack of a gas engine rating. FWIW, the old T4 bottle I have is only rated SM not SN. It seems Shell's only concern is the effect on catalytic converters. In my case, the car does have cats, but I am in a no smog check area, so I am not overly concerned about how well they function. I just changed the oil on my 350 and I am running Rotella 10W30 as I have for the last several years.

Rdy4War post some eye opening information too. However in that case I am assuming that is an aftermarket cam based on the specs. My stock 350 cam specs are considerably milder than that and in would imagine a Ford 4.9L six would have a pretty mild cam too.

So based on all this, is there an alternative to Rotella T4 forn old flat tappet pushrod engines? What is a good choice for someone running a modern high performance flat tappet cam?



The cam was aftermarket for sure.

I recommend Driven's new GP-1 10w-30 or 15w-40 for his application as that's exactly what it was designed for.

Semi-synthetic
Mo: 430
Ca: 2180
Zn: 1420
P: 1300
B: 150

The moly is trinuclear and ZDDP is all secondary type.

If on a budget though, I would rather use Mobil 1 0w-40 or 15w-50 than Rotella.

 

[Needshave]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Your 4.9L engine, with it's low valve spring pressure's, DOES NOT need high Zn. I stopped worrying about this years ago after extensive research. Old high (and newer) performance engines will require higher Zn. I believe Moly has replaced Zn in modern oil.


Thanks Ka9,
I missed your posting. Thats good to know about the valve spring pressure. The 96 f150, 4.9L, I have taken care of for the past 15 years. It was my father in laws and I inherited it recently.
My father in law had case upon cases of Wolf Head 10w30 motor oil and F1 filters that I used for at least a decade. That's all gone now so I used Valvoline 10W30 in the 4.9, which it does not like so I'm searching for a replacement

 

[Needshave]

Rdy,

Thanks for following up. DO you think the part of the problem with wiping a cam lobe was with cold starting using a 15W? could it have been too thick to get immediate lubrication, if a 10W would have been used do you think the problem would have not developed?