Toyota 1.5L, Honda Fit 1.5L Miata Engines

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Hi I know not where to put this question.

I know of this father-son duo in love with Mazda, mainly the Miata. They even where Mazda apparel.

They love the driving dynamics and handling and care not for speed. I am the same way in that regard because I just cannot justify paying so much more in fuel cost for a daily driver to have a "speed" car, regardless of what definition one uses for speed. It just does not make sense to me to accelerate to a red light. it is just wasting gas and brakes while wearing out other parts. Therefore, I am perfectly fine with a Miata and the power to weight ratio of lighter car like that.

Anyways, I see the son one day, and he tells me he swapped out the engine of his Miata for a Honda one. I do not recall which one he said, but I imagine it was most likely the lowest power Honda car engine or one or two spots above it.

So I have a question for anyone knowledgable here. I know that that Toyota Cianos/Paseo had a 1.5L engine, but this was around 20 years ago in technology. Toyota currently has a 1.5 in the Yaris, and my guess is it is more fuel efficient and powerful than the cianos engine. Honda Fit has a 1.5L, and the civic is 1.8 I believe. Can someone brake down for me the differences, upsides, downsides, etc anything you can think of the cianos engine, the current 1.5 Yaris engine, 1.5 Honda Fit engine and the Miata engine engines? Mazda has been doing interesting Crazy things with what they call "sky active" technology and I just do not know how it compares to more "conventional" engine designs.

It looks like a nice project hobby to get a light weight car like cianos/paseo or older Mazda and maybe swap the engine out, so if someone here is an engine buff can you please lay out for me the Differences in the different engines I mentioned and what one you would want and why.

TLDR what Japanese engine in the 1.5L (or around there) club would you want for a lightweight sportynimble car of the past few decades that is not a for "speed" car?

And nothing against other makes, too long to get into how, but I'm just inclined toward Japanese.
 
I'm thinking the engine/transmission from the Honda S2000 maybe? It's Rear wheel drive like the Miata.
 
I've heard of using the Honda 1.5 in the Miata in racing applications; my wife used to race RX-7s and she said the Toyota 1.5 was discussed as a swap option, she hasn't seen it though.
 
There is NO economy to be gained with engine swaps, I did engine swaps professionally or over 15 years! While it wasn't Japanese vehicles, But the old adage still rings true......You can buy A LOT of gasoline for what a engine swap will cost.

If you want a MX-5/Miata, Buy one & don't drive like a fool/boy racer....It will get decent MPG.


I did own a 1971 Datsun 240Z with a LS1/T56 swapped in. It was so lightweight.....I could beat on it & still get decent MPG of around 18.
 
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Originally Posted by clinebarger
There is NO economy to be gained with engine swaps, I did engine swaps professionally or over 15 years! While it wasn't Japanese vehicles, But the old adage still rings true......You can buy A LOT of gasoline for what a engine swap will cost.

If you want a MX-5/Miata, Buy one & don't drive like a fool/boy racer....It will get decent MPG.


I did own a 1971 Datsun 240Z with a LS1/T56 swapped in. It was so lightweight.....I could beat on it & still get decent MPG of around 18.


Interesting- I had a 1971 240Z with the Scarab kit- early 1980's 350 small block V8 with about 300 hp. The extra weight up front hurt the overall handling, and the rear diff was weak until I replaced it with a 280z 2+2 version.
 
I have 3 Toyota's with the 1.5 engine. All over 160,00 miles with the oldest at 338,000 miles. I've seen no downside, original engines, no seal replacements, just spark plugs.
 
The thermal efficiency of all those engines are within a percent of each other. There is truly no gain to be had. Claims to the contrary are just that.

However, there is no question a vehicle can be "tuned" for economy. Running low RPM is one way to help. The Miata has 4.10:1 gears, and even with a 6 speed manual transmission and overdrive, it's still turning 4000 RPM at 80MPH. Choice of engine won't matter here, as the RPM is too high to get maximum efficiency.

I owned a 2004 2.2L Honda S2000 and that engine was an amazing machine. Mine had an aftermarket turbo kit on it, and I ended up changing the read differential ratio to 3.6:1. MPG shot up quite a bit. As did top speed. I redlined the engine at 8600. That would be an incredible engine in a Miata!!! In my case, the gear ratio change was to accommodate the additional power and reduce the constant shifting.
 
I would take the Honda 1.5 over the yamaha/toyota.

Reason - vtec vs. vvt

This engine L15A7 was allowed in the Formula Ford racing series and also has support.

How do I know? Had a Yaris and a Honda Fit with MT.

I'm not a honda fan at all, but Id go with this engine.

Though I don' like the feel of undersquare 4 bangers.
 
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
Originally Posted by clinebarger
There is NO economy to be gained with engine swaps, I did engine swaps professionally or over 15 years! While it wasn't Japanese vehicles, But the old adage still rings true......You can buy A LOT of gasoline for what a engine swap will cost.

If you want a MX-5/Miata, Buy one & don't drive like a fool/boy racer....It will get decent MPG.


I did own a 1971 Datsun 240Z with a LS1/T56 swapped in. It was so lightweight.....I could beat on it & still get decent MPG of around 18.


Interesting- I had a 1971 240Z with the Scarab kit- early 1980's 350 small block V8 with about 300 hp. The extra weight up front hurt the overall handling, and the rear diff was weak until I replaced it with a 280z 2+2 version.



The LS1 is all aluminum, Wasn't that much heavier than the 2.4L I6, I swapped in a diff out of a Q45.
 
do the honda engines turn the right way now? A few years ago, at least, they didn't. Honda swap back then gave you 5 speeds in Reverse and 1 low gear forward...
 
Originally Posted by meep
do the honda engines turn the right way now? A few years ago, at least, they didn't. Honda swap back then gave you 5 speeds in Reverse and 1 low gear forward...

I think all Honda engines rotate clockwise since about 2000. My old Accord's F22 engine rotates counterclockwise.
 
The Prius version of the 1NZ-FE is a known oil burner, while the Scion/Echo/Yaris version isn't known to drink. They might be loud and unrefined but they are durable motors. The main difference is that the Prius 1NZ is relatively coddled and uses a different top end while the non-hybrid version gets thrashed around more and has higher compression.

Blitz in Japan made a supercharger kit for the bB Wagon and ist, which are the JDM versions of the 1st gen Scion xB and xA.
 
Originally Posted by nthach
The Prius version of the 1NZ-FE is a known oil burner, while the Scion/Echo/Yaris version isn't known to drink. They might be loud and unrefined but they are durable motors. The main difference is that the Prius 1NZ is relatively coddled and uses a different top end ...
What specifically causes the difference in consumption?
 
He likely has a NA/NB style Miata (1990-2003) that used the old Mazda B Series motor. While plenty of fun in stock form, there are piles of swaps out there for them. The one your friend did is likely a Honda K-Series swap:

https://kmiata.com/

Big fun in a little package.

There's also the Miata J-Series swap for V6 love (http://www.superfastminis.com/store/p_1023241/jv6-miata-kit), LS-Series for big power (https://www.flyinmiata.com/miata-pe...ions.html?SID=m2bl0nh9vfo006f2l0n9i48241), and the original old 5.0 Ford swap.

All depends on what you're after. The K and J swaps keep the balance of the car roughly the same and use factory Trans/Rear ends. The higher HP stuff is much more involved and requires new diffs/halfshafts/trans/etc.

Had I kept my Miata, the long term plan was a 3.2L Honda V6 swap, but other things got in the way. I'd be up for one of the K Swaps as well, you're roughly doubling your HP either way you go. The chassis of the NA/NB does fine with ~250hp and it makes it a really fun little track monster, which is what I would have been after.
 
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