Buying Used BMW Checklist
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Originally Posted by edwardh1
seems BMW would have put their design skills for great steering and braking into debugging the cars. they need to hire some Japanese / Toyota quality people.
think how great that would be - a car that stopped and drove well that was not a maintenance nightmare
There's a DW video on youtube about how EV might destroy the German auto industry. One statement mentioned that EV has fewer parts (i.e. from 4000 drop to around 1000), and it is beneath them (German in this case).
When you see this kind of statement, you realize they are not in the business to simplify life and make things reliable / robust. They are there to showcase the possibilities and innovations.
They can have their innovations, I'll stick to boring and reliability any day when my busy life depends on it.
seems BMW would have put their design skills for great steering and braking into debugging the cars. they need to hire some Japanese / Toyota quality people.
think how great that would be - a car that stopped and drove well that was not a maintenance nightmare
There's a DW video on youtube about how EV might destroy the German auto industry. One statement mentioned that EV has fewer parts (i.e. from 4000 drop to around 1000), and it is beneath them (German in this case).
When you see this kind of statement, you realize they are not in the business to simplify life and make things reliable / robust. They are there to showcase the possibilities and innovations.
They can have their innovations, I'll stick to boring and reliability any day when my busy life depends on it.
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Now I'm starting to worry. We have four BMW's...
I can't wait to get me one of those beautiful Beemers that goes up ror sale soon...
All you M5 owners get crackin' !
Lickin' my chops...
All you M5 owners get crackin' !
Lickin' my chops...
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a very full wallet
my experience with owning a 02 330i for 14 years and 175k miles is that don't buy one unless you can fix it yourself or have lot of money to pay a shop. all the stuff i fixed on mine were just the normal bmw stuff like cooling etc. the parts surprisingly are not that expensive so doing it myself did not cost much. pay a shop and you are gonna get shocked.
mine is old enough that it did not have too many electronics in it. i would never buy a newer bmw without a warranty.
mine is old enough that it did not have too many electronics in it. i would never buy a newer bmw without a warranty.
Originally Posted by WhyMe
my experience with owning a 02 330i for 14 years and 175k miles is that don't buy one unless you can fix it yourself or have lot of money to pay a shop. all the stuff i fixed on mine were just the normal bmw stuff like cooling etc. the parts surprisingly are not that expensive so doing it myself did not cost much. pay a shop and you are gonna get shocked.
mine is old enough that it did not have too many electronics in it. i would never buy a newer bmw without a warranty.
Depends which shop? Indy is same for BMW and Toyota. Actually transverse V6 Toyota's shock people with labor hours. BMW X5 has more streamlined brake pad replacement than for example my Sienna. Take it to the dealer, well, they charge premium for premium vehicle.
my experience with owning a 02 330i for 14 years and 175k miles is that don't buy one unless you can fix it yourself or have lot of money to pay a shop. all the stuff i fixed on mine were just the normal bmw stuff like cooling etc. the parts surprisingly are not that expensive so doing it myself did not cost much. pay a shop and you are gonna get shocked.
mine is old enough that it did not have too many electronics in it. i would never buy a newer bmw without a warranty.
Depends which shop? Indy is same for BMW and Toyota. Actually transverse V6 Toyota's shock people with labor hours. BMW X5 has more streamlined brake pad replacement than for example my Sienna. Take it to the dealer, well, they charge premium for premium vehicle.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by WhyMe
my experience with owning a 02 330i for 14 years and 175k miles is that don't buy one unless you can fix it yourself or have lot of money to pay a shop. all the stuff i fixed on mine were just the normal bmw stuff like cooling etc. the parts surprisingly are not that expensive so doing it myself did not cost much. pay a shop and you are gonna get shocked.
mine is old enough that it did not have too many electronics in it. i would never buy a newer bmw without a warranty.
Depends which shop? Indy is same for BMW and Toyota. Actually transverse V6 Toyota's shock people with labor hours. BMW X5 has more streamlined brake pad replacement than for example my Sienna. Take it to the dealer, well, they charge premium for premium vehicle.
Agreed.
I think much of the BMW "tax" is from dealers and people taking their car to an indy shop and not really knowing what is being done or how much it should cost. Tons of people paying close to $1000+ for oil filter housing gasket replacement on the E90 3 series cars when the gasket costs $15, is easily accessible on the top of the engine, and can be changed in under an hour.
The thing with BMW is they are expensive to own looking at them from a distance, but once you research them and know what to do they are reasonable. All the information is available on forums. DIYs, coding, parts sources, etc. There are even people on local forums who will help out other owners. I had a bad tire sensor on mine, and was able to code out the entire system so I no longer need tire sensors with the help of a forum member and a laptop. On the Grand Cherokee, it had an issue with a module that could only be programmed by the Chrysler dealership at $200/hr.
Originally Posted by WhyMe
my experience with owning a 02 330i for 14 years and 175k miles is that don't buy one unless you can fix it yourself or have lot of money to pay a shop. all the stuff i fixed on mine were just the normal bmw stuff like cooling etc. the parts surprisingly are not that expensive so doing it myself did not cost much. pay a shop and you are gonna get shocked.
mine is old enough that it did not have too many electronics in it. i would never buy a newer bmw without a warranty.
Depends which shop? Indy is same for BMW and Toyota. Actually transverse V6 Toyota's shock people with labor hours. BMW X5 has more streamlined brake pad replacement than for example my Sienna. Take it to the dealer, well, they charge premium for premium vehicle.
Agreed.
I think much of the BMW "tax" is from dealers and people taking their car to an indy shop and not really knowing what is being done or how much it should cost. Tons of people paying close to $1000+ for oil filter housing gasket replacement on the E90 3 series cars when the gasket costs $15, is easily accessible on the top of the engine, and can be changed in under an hour.
The thing with BMW is they are expensive to own looking at them from a distance, but once you research them and know what to do they are reasonable. All the information is available on forums. DIYs, coding, parts sources, etc. There are even people on local forums who will help out other owners. I had a bad tire sensor on mine, and was able to code out the entire system so I no longer need tire sensors with the help of a forum member and a laptop. On the Grand Cherokee, it had an issue with a module that could only be programmed by the Chrysler dealership at $200/hr.
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
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Originally Posted by wag123
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
Why?
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
Why?
Originally Posted by wag123
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
No, it's the exact same price per mile in lease v. lease end. Further, if you decide to lease another BMW they will allow a certain amount of overage without penalty to retain your business.
If you buy a 10k mi/yr lease and think you'll drive 11-12k mi/yr it will be the same price or cheaper in the end if you get another BMW than buying a 12k mi/yr lease.
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
No, it's the exact same price per mile in lease v. lease end. Further, if you decide to lease another BMW they will allow a certain amount of overage without penalty to retain your business.
If you buy a 10k mi/yr lease and think you'll drive 11-12k mi/yr it will be the same price or cheaper in the end if you get another BMW than buying a 12k mi/yr lease.
Originally Posted by gofast182
Originally Posted by wag123
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
No, it's the exact same price per mile in lease v. lease end. Further, if you decide to lease another BMW they will allow a certain amount of overage without penalty to retain your business.
If you buy a 10k mi/yr lease and think you'll drive 11-12k mi/yr it will be the same price or cheaper in the end if you get another BMW.
Lease payments are not figured on a per mile basis, they are figured on the expected depreciation over the contracted term and miles. If you go over your mileage allotment, when the lease ends BMW will charge you .20 to .25 per mile (depending on the model) for every mile over your allotment. That's $200 to $250 for every 1000 miles! This, along with the other coming-out fees, is where many people who are uninformed about auto leasing get themselves into trouble. If you tell them that you will be driving more miles and want the additional miles figured into your lease, with most auto leasing finance companies you will only pay for the additional depreciation that the vehicle will suffer for having the higher miles, typically FAR less than the .20 to .25 per mile overage fee. BMW does have a program where they will forgive the mile overage (if it isn't too far out-of-line), but they will only do this if you are leasing another BMW from them. My suspicion is that they are tacking at least some of the shortfall onto the new lease.
Originally Posted by wag123
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
No, it's the exact same price per mile in lease v. lease end. Further, if you decide to lease another BMW they will allow a certain amount of overage without penalty to retain your business.
If you buy a 10k mi/yr lease and think you'll drive 11-12k mi/yr it will be the same price or cheaper in the end if you get another BMW.
Lease payments are not figured on a per mile basis, they are figured on the expected depreciation over the contracted term and miles. If you go over your mileage allotment, when the lease ends BMW will charge you .20 to .25 per mile (depending on the model) for every mile over your allotment. That's $200 to $250 for every 1000 miles! This, along with the other coming-out fees, is where many people who are uninformed about auto leasing get themselves into trouble. If you tell them that you will be driving more miles and want the additional miles figured into your lease, with most auto leasing finance companies you will only pay for the additional depreciation that the vehicle will suffer for having the higher miles, typically FAR less than the .20 to .25 per mile overage fee. BMW does have a program where they will forgive the mile overage (if it isn't too far out-of-line), but they will only do this if you are leasing another BMW from them. My suspicion is that they are tacking at least some of the shortfall onto the new lease.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
Why?
Well, for one thing, BMW is providing the maintenance.
Originally Posted by wag123
BMWs are great vehicles but their cost-of-ownership can be astronomical. For many years my advice to people who want to drive a BMW has been this... do not buy a used one (or new one), lease a new one, and then you can/should lease a new one every 3-4 years if you want to continue driving them. Even then, you should live reasonably close to a BMW dealer because you will be visiting them often, if the closest BMW dealer is a 2 hour drive, look at something else. If you can't afford to lease a new one, look at something else. If you drive too many miles for a "standard" lease, have the dealer work the higher miles INTO the lease (yes, you can do that), the monthly payment will be higher but it will be FAR cheaper to do it this way than paying the over mileage penalty coming out. After 4 years they can/will become more and more of a money pit as they age.
Why?
Well, for one thing, BMW is providing the maintenance.
If you can't afford BMW repairs..... stay away and buy a used Accord or Camry.
I'm still trying to figure out how the "a BMW should not be "purchased" at all, they should be obtained under 3-4 year leases and replaced every 3-4 years so that they are always covered under the factory new car warranty, free maintenance, free roadside assistance, free towing, and free loaner car period (you ARE going to need these services)." advice is a wise financial decision.
In my case I bought a 2004 X3 2.5i in December of 2005 and kept it for 137 months. If I had leased a car at $550/month(with no money down) during that period I would have spent over $32,000 more than the actual depreciation and service/repair costs(including three sets of tires). And note that I changed oil at 8.000 mile intervals, ATF at 60,000 intervals, and coolant every 3-4 years.
Yes, perpetual leasing sure makes sense to me; maybe I'd break even if I leased a more expensive car for a longer period...
In my case I bought a 2004 X3 2.5i in December of 2005 and kept it for 137 months. If I had leased a car at $550/month(with no money down) during that period I would have spent over $32,000 more than the actual depreciation and service/repair costs(including three sets of tires). And note that I changed oil at 8.000 mile intervals, ATF at 60,000 intervals, and coolant every 3-4 years.
Yes, perpetual leasing sure makes sense to me; maybe I'd break even if I leased a more expensive car for a longer period...
Originally Posted by MCompact
I'm still trying to figure out how the "a BMW should not be "purchased" at all, they should be obtained under 3-4 year leases and replaced every 3-4 years so that they are always covered under the factory new car warranty, free maintenance, free roadside assistance, free towing, and free loaner car period (you ARE going to need these services)." advice is a wise financial decision.
In my case I bought a 2004 X3 2.5i in December of 2005 and kept it for 137 months. If I had leased a car at $550/month(with no money down) during that period I would have spent over $32,000 more than the actual depreciation and service/repair costs(including three sets of tires). And note that I changed oil at 8.000 mile intervals, ATF at 60,000 intervals, and coolant every 3-4 years.
Yes, perpetual leasing sure makes sense to me; maybe I'd break even if I leased a more expensive car for a longer period...
According to wag123 that is impossible. Are you saying your maintenance (except oil changes) equaled to amount necessary to shell out to change spark plugs on Toyota Sienna?
I'm still trying to figure out how the "a BMW should not be "purchased" at all, they should be obtained under 3-4 year leases and replaced every 3-4 years so that they are always covered under the factory new car warranty, free maintenance, free roadside assistance, free towing, and free loaner car period (you ARE going to need these services)." advice is a wise financial decision.
In my case I bought a 2004 X3 2.5i in December of 2005 and kept it for 137 months. If I had leased a car at $550/month(with no money down) during that period I would have spent over $32,000 more than the actual depreciation and service/repair costs(including three sets of tires). And note that I changed oil at 8.000 mile intervals, ATF at 60,000 intervals, and coolant every 3-4 years.
Yes, perpetual leasing sure makes sense to me; maybe I'd break even if I leased a more expensive car for a longer period...
According to wag123 that is impossible. Are you saying your maintenance (except oil changes) equaled to amount necessary to shell out to change spark plugs on Toyota Sienna?
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