737 max... what now?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by FowVay
The fan diameter on a 3rd generation 737 is 61" (CFM56-7B). The fan diameter on a 4th generation 737 is 69" (CFM LEAP-1B). An eight inch total diameter increase is not drastic.

Fdcg27 already explained. To add, 737-300 already had an issue with diameter. That is why enclosure is not round shape.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by FowVay
The fan diameter on a 3rd generation 737 is 61" (CFM56-7B). The fan diameter on a 4th generation 737 is 69" (CFM LEAP-1B). An eight inch total diameter increase is not drastic.


28% more blade area...

 

[PimTac]

Boeing was giving what the airlines wanted, namely better range and more passenger seats. A good example is Alaska Airlines who wanted a 737 that would fly to Hawaii. They got what they asked for.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by PimTac
Boeing was giving what the airlines wanted, namely better range and more passenger seats. A good example is Alaska Airlines who wanted a 737 that would fly to Hawaii. They got what they asked for.

Maybe a newly designed 797 would have been a better choice.... ?

Very disappointed Boeing is now run by MBA's looking at budget spreadsheets, not by pilots and engineers looking to do things correctly even if it costs more.

A dead passenger is 'worth' $1.2M to Boeing... ...ž



It is not only Boeing. AA and Southwest pressured Boeing to offer, yet again, another 737.

 

[Mr Nice]

Boeing needs a 'blank sheet of paper' and start from scratch, not keep modifying a 50+ year old design.

Airbus loves this big mess.

 

[FowVay]

Originally Posted by Shannow


28% more blade area...

It's a 4" radius increase for crying out loud. You Lower the ship 2" closer to the runway with tire wear. Be realistic. I know you're all experts and overhaul these things daily and are experts in all things technical but get real.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Boeing needs a 'blank sheet of paper' and start from scratch, not keep modifying a 50+ year old design.

Airbus loves this big mess.

Actually Airbus is not that happy about this. Too much chaos in industry that likes a lot of stability.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by FowVay
Originally Posted by Shannow


28% more blade area...

It's a 4" radius increase for crying out loud. You Lower the ship 2" closer to the runway with tire wear. Be realistic. I know you're all experts and overhaul these things daily and are experts in all things technical but get real.

If 4" is not an issue, 737-300 would have round enclosure, but it does not.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by FowVay
Originally Posted by Shannow


28% more blade area...

It's a 4" radius increase for crying out loud. You Lower the ship 2" closer to the runway with tire wear. Be realistic. I know you're all experts and overhaul these things daily and are experts in all things technical but get real.


Maths isn't your strong point is it ???

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted by FowVay
Originally Posted by Shannow


28% more blade area...

It's a 4" radius increase for crying out loud. You Lower the ship 2" closer to the runway with tire wear. Be realistic. I know you're all experts and overhaul these things daily and are experts in all things technical but get real.


I know that you're a pro tech and so have professional qualifications on aircraft.
The question would be if the increase in installed diameter was so trivial, then why did Boeing go to all of the trouble to relocate the engines and install a longer nose gear?
I know that you see 737NG aircraft on a regular basis and you've no doubt noticed the flattened lower nacelle as well as how little clearance there is between it and the ground.
The 737 was designed with short gear for a different time and place in airline operations.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Boeing needs a 'blank sheet of paper' and start from scratch, not keep modifying a 50+ year old design.

Airbus loves this big mess.

Actually Airbus is not that happy about this. Too much chaos in industry that likes a lot of stability.

I'm sure Boeing is trying to salvage their reputation with all the 737 problems.

Air Force very unhappy with new 767 tanker problems....

 

[4WD]

Just wonder if the B797 name does not wind up 320/321 NEO competition … B767 operators can step up to the smallest B787 … B757 replacement comes from the larger B737 replacement (as B797)

Probably too much invested in the mid size now … But A321 is selling

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Boeing needs a 'blank sheet of paper' and start from scratch, not keep modifying a 50+ year old design.

Airbus loves this big mess.

Actually Airbus is not that happy about this. Too much chaos in industry that likes a lot of stability.

I'm sure Boeing is trying to salvage their reputation with all the 737 problems.

Air Force very unhappy with new 767 tanker problems....

Yeah, that KC46 is constantly having issues mostly related to QC.

 

[tundraotto]

How many times did they cancel and redo that Airbus-USAF tanker deal until they could give it to Boeing? Maybe once too many....

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by tundraotto
How many times did they cancel and redo that Airbus-USAF tanker deal until they could give it to Boeing? Maybe once too many....

That thing was laughable.

 

[Mr Nice]

Way too much $$$$$ involved to let Airbus win that contract.

Air Force Generals involved all have nice jobs waiting for them at Boeing after they retire from the USAF.

 

[4WD]

Did they get the Airbus fueling problems sorted in Oz … speaking of that plane and country … is it confirmed an A330 nose dived itself …

Both of these highly dependent on a computer

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Boeing needs a 'blank sheet of paper' and start from scratch, not keep modifying a 50+ year old design.

Airbus loves this big mess.

Kinda and kinda not.

Airbus is winning big in Dubai right now - although the A320 series is to low cost carriers like the Prius is to Uber drivers and cabbies. It's actually helping sales of the A350 oddly enough. Emirates signed a MOA to buy 50 A359s. But as much as Airbus thinks their planes are superior to Boeing's, the two want stability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/19/boeing-books-orders-for-50-737-max-jets-at-dubai-air-show.html

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Boeing needs a 'blank sheet of paper' and start from scratch, not keep modifying a 50+ year old design.

Airbus loves this big mess.

Kinda and kinda not.

Airbus is winning big in Dubai right now - although the A320 series is to low cost carriers like the Prius is to Uber drivers and cabbies. It's actually helping sales of the A350 oddly enough. Emirates signed a MOA to buy 50 A359s. But as much as Airbus thinks their planes are superior to Boeing's, the two want stability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/19/boeing-books-orders-for-50-737-max-jets-at-dubai-air-show.html


The 737 has its share of loco adherents as well. Once an airline marries itself to A or B, the cost of divorce is quite high.
The operating economics of the A320neo and the Max are separated by no more than pocket change in any event.
It now looks like the Max will finally be cleared to return to service in the next couple of weeks and will be back in airline schedules by early March.
The horror of the accidents will soon be forgotten by the ticket buying public, although I'd hope that they remain a long term memory within Boeing.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Boeing needs a 'blank sheet of paper' and start from scratch, not keep modifying a 50+ year old design.

Airbus loves this big mess.

Kinda and kinda not.

Airbus is winning big in Dubai right now - although the A320 series is to low cost carriers like the Prius is to Uber drivers and cabbies. It's actually helping sales of the A350 oddly enough. Emirates signed a MOA to buy 50 A359s. But as much as Airbus thinks their planes are superior to Boeing's, the two want stability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/19/boeing-books-orders-for-50-737-max-jets-at-dubai-air-show.html


The 737 has its share of loco adherents as well. Once an airline marries itself to A or B, the cost of divorce is quite high.
The operating economics of the A320neo and the Max are separated by no more than pocket change in any event.
It now looks like the Max will finally be cleared to return to service in the next couple of weeks and will be back in airline schedules by early March.
The horror of the accidents will soon be forgotten by the ticket buying public, although I'd hope that they remain a long term memory within Boeing.

If there is punitive action, maybe. if not, they will do same at first opportunity. They prioritized stock over product while engaging in lobbying to weaken regulation. Hopefully govt. hits them hard and set up stricter regulations when it comes to certification.