Back of the brake pad: anti-seize or silicone brake lube?

[LeakySeals]

Nothing on the back of the pads, shims, ears, slides. Causes more problems than it solves. Any type of grease is magnet for soot, sand, brake dust. Within a couple of months the pads will be stuck and begin dragging. All that needs to stay clean. Sil-glyde on pins only.

If for some reason there is a lot of squeal after a proper bedding procedure I suggest you use the power stop z17 pads. They have a rubber shim.

 

[chembarreto]

I agree with Leaky Seals #5137652 post. All greases and anti-seize compounds will collect abrasive brake dust and road dirt, squealing and shim wear will eventually result, those abrasives might eventually get under the brake piston seals and cause brake fluid leaks. The posters that worry about lubricants migrating to the pads when the heat melts them are correct, and the rotors might sling that stuff around. I had temporary luck with the silicone plastic goops that set up as a soft adhered plastic, but the piston pounds/rubs this off in a few months and the brake squeals returned.

Here is a 'clean' solution that has worked for me. Remove all the shims except the last one which clips on to the back of the disc brake pad. Wind teflon tape onto that shim (used to seal plumbing threads. Continuously wind tape around the shim in an 'asterisk' pattern, just one layer needed, except when you make a turn. Clip on the shim. Now, the piston hits and slips against the super slippery Teflon. The shim hits the back of the pad with a Teflon cushion that also slips, there is no metal to metal noise possible. Years later the tape will still be in place. This dry Teflon lubricant attracts much less dirt. High temperature resistance is phenomenal! Teflon tape has been used to seal threads on engine blocks and high pressure steam pipes. Lastly, the tape is widely available at plumbing departments (Walmart, HD, Loews), it is very inexpensive at Harbor Freight.

The Teflon tape method has worked well for me on 2 Volvos (240 type), 3 Toyotas (2 Matrix and 1Echo) and 1 Mazda 3. I hope this method works for you.

If you try this let us know what you find, by extending this thread.

 

[nthach]

I've always "buttered" up the backs of my pads with the OEM-speced grease(if it's included) or Permatex's Silicone Brake Lube. Never had an issue. Lately, I've installed the outboard pads dry with a little lube on the parts that touch the caliper.

Now, if they are Wagner ThermoQuiets with that weird backing plate or old school non-shimmed pads I break out the Disc Brake Quiet.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted by PotatoFarmer77w
Hi all,

So I've been using silicone (the same stuff that lubes the calliper slide pin) on back of the brake pad as lubricating for years, never had a problem with it. That's how I was taught from school. After watching a few brake jobs video on youtube, seems like everybody else is using copper anti-seize.

Thoughts?

My Toyota and Honda factory service manuals both recommend their greases, if you look them up, they both use a high solids Moly for the back of brake pads, and Silicone for the pins. So that's what I do.

 

[doitmyself]

Since you guys resurrected this early summer thread...

Hangfire, my comment above about silicone vs pao based referred to the oil component of the lubricant, not the solids portion. I agree that they are both high solids moly paste.

Regarding the subject matter, while there is certainly no consensus, there is a lot of support to follow the individual pad mfg. recommendations, which varies. I agree with the idea that Disk Brake Quiet is for non shimmed pads only because their instructions say that. There are also lots of professional sites and articles that support light lubricant application to pad backs.

Off topic a bit, my new EBC Ultimax pads came with a different NVH solution - Nu-lok piston insert shim (Canadian Co.): http://nucap.com/nulok-piston-cushion/

 

[supton]

On the back of brake pads I use nothing. I used Sta-Lube grease once, and they squeaked--probably the wrong stuff. I think one or more of my Toyota's came to me with moly grease of some sort on the anti-squeal shims, and they didn't squeal. But after they dry out or I do a pad slap, I install them dry, and I don't have squeal. Ergo, I don't bother.

On pad ears though I put on M77 as noted by The_Critic. I make sure metal surfaces are (mostly) clean of rust, that they slide properly when installed dry. Then a light coat of M77. Every spring it has to be redone but at least I have good working brakes for a year. I tried the aforementioned Sta-Lube and it would need to be redone every six months to keep everything moving.

 

[Railrust]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by pda1122
Surprised no one uses actual brake caliper grease. I use either purple or green. Silglyde on pins

That's what I used (green stuff) last time with no issues (no washout/brake noise). A little on the back of the pads, guide pins and on the shims where they contact the caliper. A little goes a long way...




Our shop has switched to the green stuff, it seems to be working better than the purple stuff. I've seen the purple stuff dry out and cause problems on caliper pins (and that stuff was supposed to be great according to the guy who sold us on it...not cheap either). So we've switched to the green. We used to use a black synthetic grease ...can't remember what it was called but it worked pretty well. Prior to that we were using a 3M silicon...that worked good too, no issues.

 

[Fsharp]

I've put Disk Brake Quiet on multiple cars with shimmed pads by spraying it on the back of the pads and the back of the shims and never had a problem. What Possible harm would that cause? I spray the disks or inside the drums with CRC de-squeak too. I have not had any brake squeals when doing this.

 

[doitmyself]

Understand that brake noise is caused by the interaction (vibrations/resonance) set up between the various brake surfaces: rotor, pad, caliper. Some people suggest that the use of disk brake quiet on factory glued on shims can possibly cause the shims to become detached from the pad back. The disk brake quiet doesn't allow the shim to slide on the caliper contact area, so the vibrations/movement is transferred to the glue side of the shim, "possibly" destroying it.

Similar to anti seize argument on NGK plugs - there's mfg. instructions and there's what happens in the real world.

 

[diyjake]

for those of you that grease the back of the pads, do you grease between the pad and shim or back of the shim where it comes in contact with the caliper piston or both?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by diyjake
for those of you that grease the back of the pads, do you grease between the pad and shim or back of the shim where it comes in contact with the caliper piston or both?

I apply the material exactly where the service manual (or alternatively the pad manufacturer) shows to apply it. Do you have this information?

 

[diyjake]

I am not doing a brake job at the moment, I was just asking for future brake jobs and wanted to see how other diyers do it. I'll have to read the manufacturer's instructions on that.

 

[Gebo]

I have been doing both. Toyota has diagrams of you how to grease the back of the pads depending on how the back of the pads are molded.
Originally Posted by diyjake
for those of you that grease the back of the pads, do you grease between the pad and shim or back of the shim where it comes in contact with the caliper piston or both?


I have been doing both. Toyota has diagrams of you how to grease the back of the pads depending on how the back of the pads are molded.

 

[diyjake]

Last time I bought brake pads from the Toyota dealership they came in a small oem box but it didn't have any diagrams, I guess this is something you need to specifically ask for?

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by diyjake
Last time I bought brake pads from the Toyota dealership they came in a small oem box but it didn't have any diagrams, I guess this is something you need to specifically ask for?


Unless the parts are a part of a TSB with a specific procedure, they would expect someone installing them to have access to the FSM.

 

[diyjake]

How would I get ahold of a FSM. Are they free to the public or is this something a mechanic gets through a paid subscription?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by diyjake
How would I get ahold of a FSM. Are they free to the public or is this something a mechanic gets through a paid subscription?

https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=ti_home_page&contextType=external&username=string&password=secure_string&challenge_url=https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/login/techinfo&request_id=-1563272325073460328&authn_try_count=0&locale=en_US&resource_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftechinfo.toyota.com%2F

$20 for 48 hr from Toyota.

Or you can subscribe to alldatadiy. There are lots of coupon codes floating around; you can get a 3 or 5-yr subscription for a reasonable price.

 

[bdcardinal]

Sometimes the parts people will print out the section for the customer if they ask. I try to with Ford. Mazda does not give me access to the shop manuals with a parts login.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by doitmyself

Off topic a bit, my new EBC Ultimax pads came with a different NVH solution - Nu-lok piston insert shim (Canadian Co.): http://nucap.com/nulok-piston-cushion/

Nucap is also one of the main suppliers of backing plates and shims to the aftermarket brake industry. A lot of aftermarket friction was made in Canada. Now it's mostly China or India.

 

[Luftmasse]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by pda1122
Surprised no one uses actual brake caliper grease. I use either purple or green. Silglyde on pins.
I saw copper AS on the pad ears of my neighbor's brand new Sante Fe and that sealed the deal for me. It's pretty expensive though, between copper AS and 3m silicone paste I have almost $100 CAD in brake grease!

Syl Glyde is trash, I live in Toronto and it can't go a year without washing off of pad ears or getting thick and turning yellow on the slide pins. It's cheap and good in a pinch, but Mission silicone paste is close an price and far superior. You just can't buy it in Canada.


Many people uses Sil Glyde. Are they that really that bad?