Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever.

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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Silvertone2000
...Something about the transmission adjusting to the changing viscosity of the fluid...



Most transmissions work on specific pressures at specific points in the transmission, plus or minus a few percentage points, so I call this misinformation.

Depending on how the vehicle has been driven, in my experience most FF fluids are looking pretty bad by 35k, i.e., the fluid is black, oxidized, increased in viscosity by 3-5 cSt points, with a lot of solid, particulate matter.

Find a good local mechanic who has the correct tooling to do a proper fluid and or filter job.


Boom. The voice of reasons and experience.

Fluids are not going to last forever, and random babble 2nd hand from dealer monkeys does not constitute articles of faith.
 
Your transmission will fail eventually no matter how well you maintain it, but by not changing the fluid you guarantee an earlier death. Find a maintenance schedule and stick to it. Be it yearly drain and fills or cooler line flushes.
 
Originally Posted by Jetsfan421
Your transmission will fail eventually no matter how well you maintain it, but by not changing the fluid you guarantee an earlier death. Find a maintenance schedule and stick to it. Be it yearly drain and fills or cooler line flushes.


True but if your maintaining the fluid, it may not fail while you own it.
 
Originally Posted by Oro_O
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Silvertone2000
...Something about the transmission adjusting to the changing viscosity of the fluid...



Most transmissions work on specific pressures at specific points in the transmission, plus or minus a few percentage points, so I call this misinformation.

Depending on how the vehicle has been driven, in my experience most FF fluids are looking pretty bad by 35k, i.e., the fluid is black, oxidized, increased in viscosity by 3-5 cSt points, with a lot of solid, particulate matter.

Find a good local mechanic who has the correct tooling to do a proper fluid and or filter job.


Boom. The voice of reasons and experience.

Fluids are not going to last forever, and random babble 2nd hand from dealer monkeys does not constitute articles of faith.


An anecdotal reports on this site some how do? There are plenty of people who perform a change on units with over 50k miles miles where the fluid looked fine. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of transmission will go over 100k miles without a fluid change. That has been proven over the last 10-15 yrs.
 
Originally Posted by Oro_O
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Silvertone2000
...Something about the transmission adjusting to the changing viscosity of the fluid...



Most transmissions work on specific pressures at specific points in the transmission, plus or minus a few percentage points, so I call this misinformation.

Depending on how the vehicle has been driven, in my experience most FF fluids are looking pretty bad by 35k, i.e., the fluid is black, oxidized, increased in viscosity by 3-5 cSt points, with a lot of solid, particulate matter.

Find a good local mechanic who has the correct tooling to do a proper fluid and or filter job.


Boom. The voice of reasons and experience.

Fluids are not going to last forever, and random babble 2nd hand from dealer monkeys does not constitute articles of faith.



I have yet to see any modern slushbox that does not regulate the pressure carefully according to defined limits. Old fluid will indeed accelerate wear.

And I would be extremely unlikely to ask any stealership monkey about maintenance. The schedule and exact procedures required are right in the owner's manual...
 
Originally Posted by BlakeB
Originally Posted by RoyFJ
I have AISIN A750F on my FJ Cruiser and I change every 30000 with AISIN AFW+ synthetic oil, I do a complete flush with machine. I have an oil cooler and Magnefine inline filter as well.

I looked up AFW+, it's a little thicker than WS, but if Aisin recommends it for WS applications I'm sure it'll work no problem, they made the A750 after all....


Yes its thicker than WS ATF but its been tested and used extensively in Russia under low temps and folks have had good results with no degradation of any kind. Being synthetic it has better cold weather range. The shift feel after changing to it from WS ATF on my transmission is a big improvement especially when the transmission is being pushed in stop and go traffic or hills under hot sun. Incidentally Aisin recommends change every 20,000 with their fluid. https://aisin.ae/upload/lpic/lpic_5.pdf
 
Originally Posted by RoyFJ
Originally Posted by BlakeB
Originally Posted by RoyFJ
I have AISIN A750F on my FJ Cruiser and I change every 30000 with AISIN AFW+ synthetic oil, I do a complete flush with machine. I have an oil cooler and Magnefine inline filter as well.

I looked up AFW+, it's a little thicker than WS, but if Aisin recommends it for WS applications I'm sure it'll work no problem, they made the A750 after all....


Yes its thicker than WS ATF but its been tested and used extensively in Russia under low temps and folks have had good results with no degradation of any kind. Being synthetic it has better cold weather range. The shift feel after changing to it from WS ATF on my transmission is a big improvement especially when the transmission is being pushed in stop and go traffic or hills under hot sun. Incidentally Aisin recommends change every 20,000 with their fluid. https://aisin.ae/upload/lpic/lpic_5.pdf

I know someone that uses Mobil 1 Full Synthetic ATF in his A750 on a Tacoma and he says it shifts better on it than it does with WS. It's not recommended for WS applications but these transmissions aren't very picky about fluid types(about anything Dex/Merc seems to work), imo. I've been using Maxlife ATF in a Tacoma and a 4Runner with good results, I'll likely stay with it for the foreseeable future. A lot of Dexron VI ATFs are recommended for or suitable for WS applications, so I may try one of them one sometime and see how they do in place of WS.
 
I use Amsoil blue cap in my 15 Tacoma that requires WS. The same fluid will be used in my wife's 19 Pilot that requires DW1. Ran Valvoline Maxlife in her 08 CRV that required DW1 with 180K without issue.
 
I've owned 3 high mileage gen1 s60s. All have benefited, even from the first gear flare in one of them, by moving to amsoil and installing an inline filter. In the one with a moderate flare, the it essentially went away after about 25,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Silvertone2000
...Something about the transmission adjusting to the changing viscosity of the fluid...



Most transmissions work on specific pressures at specific points in the transmission, plus or minus a few percentage points, so I call this misinformation.

Depending on how the vehicle has been driven, in my experience most FF fluids are looking pretty bad by 35k, i.e., the fluid is black, oxidized, increased in viscosity by 3-5 cSt points, with a lot of solid, particulate matter.

Find a good local mechanic who has the correct tooling to do a proper fluid and or filter job.

It is absolutely awful how fluid looked in my 2015 Sienna when I drained it few weeks ago at 63k.
I did same in my 2013 BMW, and it was still red at 65k.
 
I've also heard from many people that flushing ATF is bad somehow. I suspect that transmissions that fail right after a fluid flush already had problems festering.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Silvertone2000
...Something about the transmission adjusting to the changing viscosity of the fluid...



Most transmissions work on specific pressures at specific points in the transmission, plus or minus a few percentage points, so I call this misinformation.

Depending on how the vehicle has been driven, in my experience most FF fluids are looking pretty bad by 35k, i.e., the fluid is black, oxidized, increased in viscosity by 3-5 cSt points, with a lot of solid, particulate matter.

Find a good local mechanic who has the correct tooling to do a proper fluid and or filter job.


I did same in my 2013 BMW, and it was still red at 65k.



+1, I had the same observation last week (53k miles). I definitely noticed an improvement under certain situations (ex, slightly faster up-shifting). I assumed it's because the old fluid had experienced some shearing.
21.gif
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Silvertone2000
...Something about the transmission adjusting to the changing viscosity of the fluid...



Most transmissions work on specific pressures at specific points in the transmission, plus or minus a few percentage points, so I call this misinformation.

Depending on how the vehicle has been driven, in my experience most FF fluids are looking pretty bad by 35k, i.e., the fluid is black, oxidized, increased in viscosity by 3-5 cSt points, with a lot of solid, particulate matter.

Find a good local mechanic who has the correct tooling to do a proper fluid and or filter job.


I did same in my 2013 BMW, and it was still red at 65k.



+1, I had the same observation last week (53k miles). I definitely noticed an improvement under certain situations (ex, slightly faster up-shifting). I assumed it's because the old fluid had experienced some shearing.
21.gif


Yes, I change d filter pan and it took 7qt using drain procedure. Shifting was bit smoother. In Sienna, 3qt got out, but I did not changed filter. I will go back at it in 2 weeks and do filter and see how much more I can drain. Also, shifting got bit smoother. That Toyota WS fluid definiately looks awful. I might take sample and send it for analysis.
 
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Originally Posted by gd9704
I've also heard from many people that flushing ATF is bad somehow. I suspect that transmissions that fail right after a fluid flush already had problems festering.

The pressure can start moving deposits that are on the walls or some other parts. Those deposits can clog filter and some other passages.
My father's in law transmission failed two weeks after Lexus dealership flushed transmission fluid on his ES300. It is astonishing that dealerships would do flush when Aisin recommends against it.
 
A power flush does it pressurize things like rubber piston seals, maybe dislodging them?

I can attest to simple drain, adjust the low band screw, (tighten to 40 inch pounds back off 4 turns), filter, refill ATF and adding 12 ozs of Lubegard Red helped my Trooper 4L30e with 206,000 miles on it. It shifts perfect now, just as if it was new. Prior to that it had delayed upshifts and sometimes going from reverse to drive it slip clunked as it got going.
Filter was not that dirty, fluid was changed 30,000 miles prior, it could be the band adjustment and then Lubegard helped most. Draining drained out 3.75 qts and it holds 9 qts.

There was minimal clutch material in bottoms of both pans, and the magnet was not heavily encrusted.
The low band prior to my adjustment, I could tell it was too loose, more like 6 turns to tight when should have been 4 turns. And no need for an inch pound torque wrench, when it is snugged up tight, it is a sudden tight, you can not possibly turn it any tighter. It is like loose then a tiny bit more turning and it is locked tight.
 
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IMHO, if fluid is relatively fresh, e.g. 30k miles - then D/F and then fluid replacement a quart at a time with draining via ATF cooler line (by starting engine for a few sec) works great.
If ATF is old, e.g. 100k miles or more - then D/F only with at least a couple hundred miles between them.
 
Wow, Thank you so much for all the great information. I really appreciate all the responses and the BITOG fourum in general! I've spent many hours here and have learned so much!
 
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