Mercedes, Worth It?

[pezzy669]

Had two late models ('09 C300 RWD & '11 E350 4Matic). Had a 1986 300E as my first car and I loved how tank like it was, for ~15 years a Mercedes was always my dream car. Finally hit the point in my life a lightly used out of warranty Mercedes was in my price range.

Bought both gently used out of warranty and not CPO, both meticulously maintained at MB dealers on time every 1 yr/10k miles. Both started needing $$$$ repairs at 70-80k miles. The '09 C300 left me stranded twice in 6 months when it was only ~8 years old. The E350 still needed $1800 worth of engine and trans mounts when it was totaled with under 80k miles on it.

Someone above said they are numb cars and I 100% agree, ZERO driving enjoyment in the non-AMG models. Very much competent handling and accelerating cars but its pretty much the German Lexus. Competent - yes, exciting - no.

So 15 years later I realized Mercedes was not my dream car and I am good with a VW or Audi.

**Side note - My Volkswagen's park the windshield wipers even if you shut off the ignition mid-wipe. My Mercedes left them wherever they were in the sweep.

 

[edyvw]

I am not sure even about AMG models of being fun. If fun equates to 0-60 runs, and enjoying uncontrollable torque, than yeah, but there are cheaper cars that do same, from Dodge, GM or Ford. And it comes with price. Huge differentials that need 30 minutes to warm up fluid in it etc. You are right, MB was always Lexus before Lexus ever existed. However, problem is that MB, as generally German cars were always at forefront of innovation. Everyone else is catching up 10-20 years later. But that comes at cost , and I think Lexus beat MB here in their own game. Offer absolutely dull vehicle that does everything mediocre, but it is comfortable and reliable.
Though one thing is when it comes to diesels in personal vehicles, Germans are by far the best. That is why MB with diesels are very sought after vehicles.

 

[Wolf359]

The E55 AMG is pretty popular. I liked the E63s myself, but the engines just have a lot of issues from weak head bolts to cams to other issues. The E55's can be had for under 20k though and are easy to mod for even more power. But yeah, I stick with the E350s because the speed is worthless when you live in the city and end up crawling in traffic all the time averaging 20mph on the highway.

As for need repairs at 70-80k, that's about the mileage when most cars will start needing repairs. From shock/struts, oxygen sensors and other suspension/wear components. As for the motor mounts, yeah the W212 was worse, it was cheaper in my W211. The transmission mount is real simple though, cheap and a 20 minute job. Corteco makes the mount and they're about $166 from FCPeuro for the two of them. I see they also sell the oem set of engine mounts and transmission for $442, it was probably even more at the dealer. I'm going to have my indy do them when it's time on my 2011, I expect it will be under $500 as he doesn't charge MB rates. As for being numb, I'd say that my 2011 is a bit more numb than my 2008, I actually prefer driving my 2008 over the 2011. Mechanically the 2011 has been more reliable than the 2008 even though it has more miles.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
**Side note - My Volkswagen's park the windshield wipers even if you shut off the ignition mid-wipe. My Mercedes left them wherever they were in the sweep.


You can't replace the wiper blades if they're parked, at least on the MB. Usually I shut them off at the peak so they're easy to change out at that point. When they're parked, I don't think they clear the hood.

I mean the MB has other little touches too, has the easy entry/exit feature, moves the steering wheel up when you get in/out. Also dips the passenger mirror down when going in reverse. I also like how when you signal turns, you can just give it a tap and it shuts off automatically after 3 blinks.

 

[slo town]

A reverse sensing passenger side view mirror and 3 blink turn signals are by no means exclusive to MB. Our BMWs and VW have those features.

Scott

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
I mean the MB has other little touches too, has the easy entry/exit feature, moves the steering wheel up when you get in/out. Also dips the passenger mirror down when going in reverse. I also like how when you signal turns, you can just give it a tap and it shuts off automatically after 3 blinks.

The features you mention are nice and all present in my 07 Acura MDX. I really like the rear wiper on once when you reverse and fronts are on.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by madRiver
The features you mention are nice and all present in my 07 Acura MDX. I really like the rear wiper on once when you reverse and fronts are on.

If this stuff impresses you wait till you drive a Tesla...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
A reverse sensing passenger side view mirror and 3 blink turn signals are by no means exclusive to MB. Our BMWs and VW have those features.

Scott

Skoda had 3 blink turn signal in 2003.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by pezzy669
**Side note - My Volkswagen's park the windshield wipers even if you shut off the ignition mid-wipe. My Mercedes left them wherever they were in the sweep.


You can't replace the wiper blades if they're parked, at least on the MB. Usually I shut them off at the peak so they're easy to change out at that point. When they're parked, I don't think they clear the hood.

I mean the MB has other little touches too, has the easy entry/exit feature, moves the steering wheel up when you get in/out. Also dips the passenger mirror down when going in reverse. I also like how when you signal turns, you can just give it a tap and it shuts off automatically after 3 blinks.

In VW you touch down wiper function after turning off ignition, and they go into "service" mode (I think that is sequence), and position at highest point so one can change blades.
3 blink is introduced by VW I think in 1999.

 

[Alfred_B]

The 3 blink thing started in the early 90-s with the BMW 7 series I think.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by nthach
And the Germans tend to have stricter rules on who can own a repair shop - you have be a meisterbrief(?), I think Trav is one.

This is actually very important. Here what I saw is that mechanics in dealerships usually throw parts at the problem, and that is true for BMW or Toyota that I own now.
In BMW dealerships when they have too complex of an issue they open "Puma" case, which means mechanics and engineers from Germany take over problem solving.


Which makes sense when BMWNA is paying for the parts thrown at the vehicle.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
That's because being a Mechanic is looked down upon in the USA, The only people pushed toward this trade usually do very poorly in school or otherwise have no other prospects, I'm speaking of skilled trades in general.

Dealerships/Manufactures don't provide near the training they used to.....Not that there is much use when you hire bottom of the barrel personnel. It doesn't help that mechanics are required to buy their own tools.....I've heard it's not like that it other developed countries?



Yet, there are plenty of people who routinely think that repair shops consistently overcharge and are, generally speaking, untrustworthy. For example how many people on BITOG routinely have someone else perform repairs/maintenance? Oh and as a business you don't want to provide mechanics with tools because those tools will walk out the door.

People don't like spending money buying/repairing/maintaining their vehicles. Another difference between repair shops in the US and say Germany is that a quarter of the vehicles on the road in the US would never pass a roadworthiness inspection. US owners will buy the cheapest part they can find and do just enough to get the vehicle running.


On a side note, from what I've read the experience of customers in the UK is similar to the US so we're not alone.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I have no data, but I am guessing that someone paying big bucks for a luxury car see that it gets routine service.
Probably at the dealer, at least for the warranty period.
Just my 2 cents...

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Perhaps, but keep in mind warranty period in Europe are a lot shorter vs the US. Ex: IIRC BMW is 2 yrs in Germany vs 4 yrs in the US. With the expense of vehicles I'd also imagine that many owners in the US who are tight on $$ would probably use some other form of transportation if they lived in Germany

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

In Silicon Valley, there is a top Community College, De Anza College in Cupertino.
De Anza was rated as one of the top 5 JCs in the nation.
They have a 2 year Mechanics program that is impacted and highly regarded.
Long waiting list to get in...

This is in the land of Computer Science. De Anza is a great school.
We need more schools like this. Not everyone is gonna be a lowly programmer like me.
In fact, I am in favor of making JCs tuition free for those who choose to improve their lives through education like this.
All good.

I think DeAnza college recently got Toyota's T-TEN program. You enroll at the program at the local CC/JC but you're taking the Toyota-prescribed curriculum and electives outside of the automotive department. Do well enough and you'll get a job at Toyota/Lexus dealer and not just being a lube tech. I think Honda does the same.

College of Alameda and Skyline College also participated in T-TEN but not anymore. I think AC Transit in Oakland and Cummins West at San Leandro sponsor a heavy-duty diesel mechanics program at College of Alameda. SFMTA is working with City College of SF or Skyline to train bus mechanics too.

I for one think we need to support community colleges more - I did well at one. Also, with the fall of schools like WyoTech(UTI is the only for-profit vocational school left), a community college would be the best place to get vocational training. The local mechanic's union(IAMAW) sends their apprentice techs to Contra Costa College or College of Alameda. I took an auto collision course as an elective during my JC/CC days and I enjoyed it. The unions sent their apprentices to the same class, so I was learning with guys in the trade.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by Wolf359

I don't think you fully understood what I said. I didn't say those options weren't available, just that cars might not come with them. That's how they keep the price of the car down. It's like over here where they advertised a super low price, but they only order one car. Even here you find cars that don't have heated seats. Most cars sold had the P1 package but some dealers just ordered one car without that package just so they could advertise the low price and do one of those bait and switch tactics. I do seem them once in a while when people in Europe end up posting their vin and you can run their vin through the vin decoder I mentioned earlier and you realize that their car basically has none of the options you would normally see here in the US. I've seen mentions of a 180, 200 or 220 models in Europe, we don't get anything like that here those smaller engines just aren't exported to the US.

That's what I meant as stripper model - Mercedes won't make a special car for the cops or cabbies but there's different options offered for every market. The Mercedes equipment catalog is just as complicated as GM's list of RPOs. The gray market W126/R107s and the G-Wagens that you can occasionally see on the roads have different options than their officially-imported US variants. I found the build sheet for an old W126 420SEL my parents had and it was pretty cool seeing what the car was specified with.

Toyota OTOH does make a special car for cabbies - the Crown Comfort which has been largely unchanged since it was introduced in the 1980s and killed off recently. It was a common sight on the streets of Japan and Hong Kong. The replacement for it is largely Prius-based but with a LPG engine.

 

[edyvw]

Mercedes makes special cars for Police and ambulance.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by nthach
And the Germans tend to have stricter rules on who can own a repair shop - you have be a meisterbrief(?), I think Trav is one.

This is actually very important. Here what I saw is that mechanics in dealerships usually throw parts at the problem, and that is true for BMW or Toyota that I own now.
In BMW dealerships when they have too complex of an issue they open "Puma" case, which means mechanics and engineers from Germany take over problem solving.


Which makes sense when BMWNA is paying for the parts thrown at the vehicle.

Yes, but a lot of customers also pay for it. That is when "horror" stories start.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by clinebarger
That's because being a Mechanic is looked down upon in the USA, The only people pushed toward this trade usually do very poorly in school or otherwise have no other prospects, I'm speaking of skilled trades in general.

Dealerships/Manufactures don't provide near the training they used to.....Not that there is much use when you hire bottom of the barrel personnel. It doesn't help that mechanics are required to buy their own tools.....I've heard it's not like that it other developed countries?



Yet, there are plenty of people who routinely think that repair shops consistently overcharge and are, generally speaking, untrustworthy. For example how many people on BITOG routinely have someone else perform repairs/maintenance? Oh and as a business you don't want to provide mechanics with tools because those tools will walk out the door.

People don't like spending money buying/repairing/maintaining their vehicles. Another difference between repair shops in the US and say Germany is that a quarter of the vehicles on the road in the US would never pass a roadworthiness inspection. US owners will buy the cheapest part they can find and do just enough to get the vehicle running.


On a side note, from what I've read the experience of customers in the UK is similar to the US so we're not alone.


Goes right back to hiring bottom of the barrel personnel because that get pushed toward trades, Are you saying that you steal from your employer & do shoddy work but are otherwise a upstanding individual?

I'm a Mechanic myself.....I know better than most that the quality/integrity of people entering the trade has taken quite a nose dive over the last 25-30 years.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

30 years is a long time my friend, a lot has changed. The economy has changed, individuals who apply themselves have options to choose trades which are less stressful both physically and mentally and can earn the same or more $$ let alone make a career out of it. IMO the adage of you get what you pay for applies here.

Curious, what will a technician with 10 yrs experience typically earn per year at an indyshop? It has been a long time, but I remember seeing the financials of a guy who owned a Meinke shop in a busy part of town. He had been in business for almost 15 yrs and was earning about $45k/yr back in 2000. That's as an owner.