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Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245874 10/21/19 10:27 AM
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I have a rather short drive to work (12 miles) and so when I drive the Corvette I make sure to use the paddle shifters and hold the rpm closer to 2000, because if I leave it in drive it always wants to be a couple of gears higher and keep the rpms closer to about 1200 or 1300. That makes a huge difference in the time it takes for my oil to get up to temperature, as well as it's peak too. For instance, if I leave it in drive it'll take about 8 miles before it gets the oil up to 190F, and then it won't go above that point. If I use the paddle shifters in manual mode and hold it in a lower gear, keeping the rpm at my desired range close to 2000, then the oil hits 190 after only about 4 or 5 miles and will reach about 210 shortly after that.

Unfortunately I can't do this in the Civic, so I'm pretty sure my oil isn't getting up to full temperature in that 12 mile drive in the winter.


2018 Corvette, 17k, M1 ESP Formula 5w30 & NAPA Gold
2006 Civic EX Coupe, 152k, PUP 5w20 & Fram Ultra
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive,121k, GC 0w40 & Fram Ultra

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245954 10/21/19 11:57 AM
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One can argue that as a result of thicker oil warning up faster, it will also reduce engine wear since most wear happens during cold starts/operation. maybe the wear reduction is not that significant ... However I think that's one reason it's recommended to run the thickest oil that meets your W rating.

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: OilUzer] #5245962 10/21/19 12:01 PM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by OilUzer
One can argue that as a result of thicker oil warning up faster, it will also reduce engine wear since most wear happens during cold starts/operation. maybe the wear reduction is not that significant ... However I think that's one reason it's recommended to run the thickest oil that meets your W rating.




You mean run a 5w or 10w instead of a 0w?


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245973 10/21/19 12:09 PM
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Yes, assuming you don't compromise the oil quality. lol

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: OilUzer] #5245983 10/21/19 12:13 PM
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So a 5w is thicker than a 0w? I’m having difficulty grasping this.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: PimTac] #5245997 10/21/19 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by PimTac
So a 5w is thicker than a 0w? I’m having difficulty grasping this.


5W will have higher viscosity (cSt) relative to a 0W at cold(er) temperatures ... Since we are talking about cold start/operation and before the oil has reached nominal operating temperatures.

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5246012 10/21/19 12:32 PM
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There are some obvious benefits (aside from your cabin heater pumping out warm air) to getting the engine up to operating temp as soon as possible..like reduced emissions for example. But I have to believe that BITOG isn't the only entity to contemplate such a question... like, maybe engine builders do/have? I mean, they obviously (have an interest in) would like to see the engine get out of running rich open loop as soon as possible. And if there was some practical way to accomplish this (warming the engine even faster) where the negatives don't outweigh the positives, we'd already see it in use in our engines wouldn't we???🤔

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 10/21/19 12:34 PM.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: OilUzer] #5246022 10/21/19 12:36 PM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by PimTac
So a 5w is thicker than a 0w? I’m having difficulty grasping this.


5W will have higher viscosity (cSt) relative to a 0W at cold(er) temperatures ... Since we are talking about cold start/operation and before the oil has reached nominal operating temperatures.


Not always, it depends on what temperature you are looking at. M1 0w-40 is heavier than any GF-5 5w-30 at all temperatures much above where the W-rating is tested, at temperature at which very few people here will be starting their vehicle.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5246044 10/21/19 12:52 PM
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I’ll just stick with what the owners manual says.

0w20.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: OilUzer] #5246064 10/21/19 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OilUzer
One can argue that as a result of thicker oil warning up faster, it will also reduce engine wear since most wear happens during cold starts/operation. maybe the wear reduction is not that significant ... However I think that's one reason it's recommended to run the thickest oil that meets your W rating.


The reduction in wear as the engine warms is due to parts reaching the size they are supposed to be and the activation of heat-activated additives, not the viscosity. Thicker oil will initially shear more, thus creating more heat, but this thins it, so eventually it reaches a point where it is at the same shear rate as whatever you are comparing it to.

One of the reasons thinner oils are being chased by OEM's is that shearing that thicker oil causes more fuel to be burned, which impacts CAFE. Thus, if you can reduce fuel consumption during the warm-up cycle, you increase fuel mileage.

Not sure where the "recommend run the thickest oil that meets your W rating" is coming from? Are you perhaps thinking about VII dosing? In general, oils with a narrower visc spread have historically had a lower dose of VII, but that doesn't factor in base oil selection. You can make a pretty cheap Group II+ 5w-30 that will have more VII than a PAO-based 0w-40 for example, so its not exactly universal.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: OVERKILL] #5246078 10/21/19 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by PimTac
So a 5w is thicker than a 0w? I’m having difficulty grasping this.


5W will have higher viscosity (cSt) relative to a 0W at cold(er) temperatures ... Since we are talking about cold start/operation and before the oil has reached nominal operating temperatures.


Not always, it depends on what temperature you are looking at. M1 0w-40 is heavier than any GF-5 5w-30 at all temperatures much above where the W-rating is tested, at temperature at which very few people here will be starting their vehicle.


I assume it depends on the oil family or a specific temperature or maybe x40 vs. x30 or the base oil can play a role ... Maybe it can't be generalized to include all oils and all "cold" temperatures ... however i recently compared the viscosity of several xW30 (x=0,5,10) in the same oil family and near freezing and the 10W's had higher viscosity that the 5W's and the 5W's had higher viscosity than the 0W's.

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: OilUzer] #5246093 10/21/19 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by PimTac
So a 5w is thicker than a 0w? I’m having difficulty grasping this.


5W will have higher viscosity (cSt) relative to a 0W at cold(er) temperatures ... Since we are talking about cold start/operation and before the oil has reached nominal operating temperatures.


Not always, it depends on what temperature you are looking at. M1 0w-40 is heavier than any GF-5 5w-30 at all temperatures much above where the W-rating is tested, at temperature at which very few people here will be starting their vehicle.


I assume it depends on the oil family or a specific temperature or maybe x40 vs. x30 or the base oil can play a role ... Maybe it can't be generalized to include all oils and all "cold" temperatures ... however i recently compared the viscosity of several xW30 (x=0,5,10) in the same oil family and near freezing and the 10W's had higher viscosity that the 5W's and the 5W's had higher viscosity than the 0W's.


Yes, it will depend on how the products are blended, but 0C isn't all that "cold" for any of those oils either, all will be quite fluid.

If we look at the Mobil 1 product family:

M1 AFE 0w-30:
100C visc: 10.9cP
40C: visc: 62.9cP
VI: 166

M1 ESP 0w-30:
100C visc: 12.0cP
40C visc: 63.0cP

M1 5w-30:
100C visc: 11.0cP
40C visc: 61.7cP
VI: 172

M1 EP 5w-30:
100C visc: 10.6cP
40C visc: 59.8cP
VI: 169

M1 10w-30:
100C visc: 10.1cP
40C visc: 63.2cP
VI: 146

Just using the calculated values:
[Linked Image]

The AFE 0w-30 is heavier than M1 5w-30 at 0C, whilst the ESP 0w-30 is thinner than everything (highest VI of the group).


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: OVERKILL] #5246169 10/21/19 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by OilUzer
One can argue that as a result of thicker oil warning up faster, it will also reduce engine wear since most wear happens during cold starts/operation. maybe the wear reduction is not that significant ... However I think that's one reason it's recommended to run the thickest oil that meets your W rating.


The reduction in wear as the engine warms is due to parts reaching the size they are supposed to be and the activation of heat-activated additives, not the viscosity. Thicker oil will initially shear more, thus creating more heat, but this thins it, so eventually it reaches a point where it is at the same shear rate as whatever you are comparing it to.

One of the reasons thinner oils are being chased by OEM's is that shearing that thicker oil causes more fuel to be burned, which impacts CAFE. Thus, if you can reduce fuel consumption during the warm-up cycle, you increase fuel mileage.

Not sure where the "recommend run the thickest oil that meets your W rating" is coming from? Are you perhaps thinking about VII dosing? In general, oils with a narrower visc spread have historically had a lower dose of VII, but that doesn't factor in base oil selection. You can make a pretty cheap Group II+ 5w-30 that will have more VII than a PAO-based 0w-40 for example, so its not exactly universal.


Regarding "cheap" oil, that's why I said earlier:
"Yes, assuming you don't compromise the oil quality. lol".

I general and not bringing in the oil quality into the equation, the less the spread (xWy) meaning highest x that meets your W rating, the less plastic (vii/vm) in your oil.
If I'm not mistaken, there are some 10W30's out there with no vm. If 10W meets your cold temp rating, why use 0W? and your engine may/will warm-up faster ... But I'm bringing up the oil quality myself grin2

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5246188 10/21/19 02:49 PM
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In the end the oil has very little impact on engine warm up.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: OilUzer] #5246230 10/21/19 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by OilUzer


I general and not bringing in the oil quality into the equation, the less the spread (xWy) meaning highest x that meets your W rating, the less plastic (vii/vm) in your oil.
If I'm not mistaken, there are some 10W30's out there with no vm. If 10W meets your cold temp rating, why use 0W? and your engine may/will warm-up faster ... But I'm bringing up the oil quality myself grin2[



Yes, AMSOIL makes one. Typically though, manufacturers just appear to use cheaper bases for the narrower spreads. M1 EP 0w-20 for example is basically entirely PAO based, the 5w-20 isn't, because it isn't needed. So both probably have similar levels of VII treat, heck, the 0w-20 could actually be lower LOL


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
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