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Factors that can affect warming up time #5245514 10/20/19 11:59 PM
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SlavaB Offline OP
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I've been thinking about what actually affects the warming up time of an engine and if type of oil can change it.
My observations in my 2 cars:
My Kia takes a good amount of time for the temp sensor to start moving, while my MB shows an increase within the first 2 mins or less.

The obvious differences are:
1. 5w30 in Kia vs european 5w40 (or 0w40 sometimes) in MB
2. MB has a turbo engine, Kia is not
Point #2 is questionable since for the first 2 mins of moving I'm literally just able to leave the underground parking lot at speeds 5-10 mph, so turbo does not kick in.

I'm guessing there're some other factors that I'm just not aware of. Will appreciate some inout and knowledge


17 Kia Sportage EX 2.4 GDI / Magnatec 5w30, OEM filter
15 MB GLA250 4Matic 2.0T / Mobil1 0w40, OEM filter
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245515 10/21/19 12:04 AM
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Silk Offline
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The turbo is still turning, just not making boost.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite VTwin 20-50
2005 Nissan Expert - 5W-30 Castrol Edge
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245517 10/21/19 12:23 AM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by SlavaB
I've been thinking about what actually affects the warming up time of an engine and if type of oil can change it.
My observations in my 2 cars:
My Kia takes a good amount of time for the temp sensor to start moving, while my MB shows an increase within the first 2 mins or less.

The obvious differences are:
1. 5w30 in Kia vs european 5w40 (or 0w40 sometimes) in MB
2. MB has a turbo engine, Kia is not
Point #2 is questionable since for the first 2 mins of moving I'm literally just able to leave the underground parking lot at speeds 5-10 mph, so turbo does not kick in.

I'm guessing there're some other factors that I'm just not aware of. Will appreciate some inout and knowledge

Turbo always works.
European engines generally warm up much faster than Asian, turbo or not. I had install block heater in my Toyota as it takes forever to warm up. VW reaches coolant operating temperature within first 3 miles while still in neighborhood.


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40+ MANN filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OE filter).
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: edyvw] #5245522 10/21/19 12:37 AM
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SlavaB Offline OP
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edyvw I do agree with you, but at a lower RPM it’s just being moved by the gases, not producing any boost. So I doubt it has an impact, maybe just because the engine has a bit higher load? That’s actually why there’s a turbo and there’s a compressor for lower rpms
So I still wonder what exactly is so different about European engines that they warm up faster


17 Kia Sportage EX 2.4 GDI / Magnatec 5w30, OEM filter
15 MB GLA250 4Matic 2.0T / Mobil1 0w40, OEM filter
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245525 10/21/19 12:43 AM
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LvR Offline
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Quality of the radiator bypass system during warmup
Quality and design of thermostat (read old mechanical with possibly bleed through hole constantly circulating through the radiator vs total shut-off ability of modern electronic thermostats)
Volume and type of block/head material to be heated
Volume and type of coolant

IMO oil will have close to zero effect on achieving normal operating temperature of the engine

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245526 10/21/19 12:44 AM
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pitzel Offline
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Lots of 'temperature sensors' are not exactly linear, but are often engineered around historical experience with avoiding complaints. Since everything's wired through an ECU these days, and just sent to a dash display module over CAN-bus, actual temperature readings can be mapped to indicator values in any way the manufacturer desires.

Overall "speed" of warming up can be a function of idle target RPM's, cooling system size, block size, etc.

A more viscous oil will have greater pumping losses, which will show up as heat. But obviously you wouldn't try to lubricate your engine with a high viscosity motor oil to decrease warm-up time as that simply wouldn't start in the winter.

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245529 10/21/19 01:01 AM
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69GTX Offline
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There is only one thing you can do to speed the warmup. That is to get into the car as soon as possible (and safe to do so) and then drive in moderately for the first few miles. Ambient temp plays a critical role but you don't control that (though a block or space heater could substitute for a warmer amb temp).

It's basically engine RPMs. You'll warm up faster (and safely) at 1500-2200 rpms. Down around 5-10 mph the warmup will be a lot slower. And your engine's lubricated parts will stay in the corrosion zone for a longer period of time.

Last edited by 69GTX; 10/21/19 01:02 AM.

----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 50K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245533 10/21/19 01:24 AM
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user52165 Offline
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Calibration differences are a factor. Are you experiencing drivability issues during warm up or just concerned with how the gauge responds differently?

Pretty much a non issue. 5W-30 vs 5W-40 is not much of a factor.

pitzel nailed it, as did ctechbob below.


Last edited by user52165; 10/21/19 01:31 AM.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245534 10/21/19 01:27 AM
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ctechbob Online Content
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I'd say that judging warmup based on a gauge in today's cars is futile. The only way you'd get a true grasp on what is going on is logging the data from OBD2. Gauges these days are mostly just glorified idiot lights. I'd be willing to bet your warmup between the two cars is closer than you think. Most are designed to get up to operating temp as quick as possible to get the ECU into its 'emissions' map and out of 'cold start'.


2008 Acura TL Type S-170k
2003 Honda Accord V6-222k
Oil-Havoline HM 5W30
Filter-Partsmaster 61334
Trans-Idemitsu H+
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245535 10/21/19 01:28 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by SlavaB
The obvious differences are:
1. 5w30 in Kia vs european 5w40 (or 0w40 sometimes) in MB.


You'd have to run different weight oils in the same car under the same warm-up running conditions to see if there's any noticable difference.

Comparing the warm-up times of two different vehicles doesn't prove anything about different oil viscosity on warm-up times.

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245536 10/21/19 01:34 AM
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dogememe Offline
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The obvious difference is two completely different cars. Duh


2010 Ford Escape 2.5 ~104K Miles: AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30, Wix Filter.
2001 Chevy Suburban 5.3 ~292K Miles: Valvoline Maxlife 10W-30, ACDelco Filter.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: ZeeOSix] #5245540 10/21/19 02:56 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by SlavaB
The obvious differences are:
1. 5w30 in Kia vs european 5w40 (or 0w40 sometimes) in MB.


You'd have to run different weight oils in the same car under the same warm-up running conditions to see if there's any noticable difference.

Comparing the warm-up times of two different vehicles doesn't prove anything about different oil viscosity on warm-up times.

Exactly.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: SlavaB] #5245545 10/21/19 03:25 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by SlavaB
I've been thinking about what actually affects the warming up time of an engine and if type of oil can change it.
My observations in my 2 cars:
My Kia takes a good amount of time for the temp sensor to start moving, while my MB shows an increase within the first 2 mins or less.

The obvious differences are:
1. 5w30 in Kia vs european 5w40 (or 0w40 sometimes) in MB
2. MB has a turbo engine, Kia is not
Point #2 is questionable since for the first 2 mins of moving I'm literally just able to leave the underground parking lot at speeds 5-10 mph, so turbo does not kick in.

I'm guessing there're some other factors that I'm just not aware of. Will appreciate some inout and knowledge

I could be wrong here but I don't think changing the viscosity is going to have a dramatic effect on how fast your engine reaches operating temp. Since oil actually acts like a coolant, no matter what viscosity you run it will do the exact opposite (cool v. heat) of what you're trying to achieve.

My guess is the biggest impact on how fast your engines warming up is the ECU tuning for fuel/air. Car's run open loop rich at startup and once at temp go into closed loop. The faster your car (ECU) can get into closed loop the better it's fuel efficiency numbers will be and the cat starts working to reduce emissions. I suppose you could monkey around with the fuel/air tuning during open loop but there are some downsides to that like increased combustion chamber deposits, damage to the Cat (running TOO rich) and poor fuel economy for example.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 10/21/19 03:28 AM.
Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5245547 10/21/19 03:36 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by SlavaB
I've been thinking about what actually affects the warming up time of an engine and if type of oil can change it.
My observations in my 2 cars:
My Kia takes a good amount of time for the temp sensor to start moving, while my MB shows an increase within the first 2 mins or less.

The obvious differences are:
1. 5w30 in Kia vs european 5w40 (or 0w40 sometimes) in MB
2. MB has a turbo engine, Kia is not
Point #2 is questionable since for the first 2 mins of moving I'm literally just able to leave the underground parking lot at speeds 5-10 mph, so turbo does not kick in.

I'm guessing there're some other factors that I'm just not aware of. Will appreciate some inout and knowledge

I could be wrong here but I don't think changing the viscosity is going to have a dramatic effect on how fast your engine reaches operating temp. Since oil actually acts like a coolant, no matter what viscosity you run it will do the exact opposite (cool v. heat) of what you're trying to achieve.

My guess is the biggest impact on how fast your engines warming up is the ECU tuning for fuel/air. Car's run open loop rich at startup and once at temp go into closed loop. The faster your car (ECU) can get into closed loop the better it's fuel efficiency numbers will be and the cat starts working to reduce emissions. I suppose you could monkey around with the fuel/air tuning during open loop but there are some downsides to that like increased combustion chamber deposits, damage to the Cat (running TOO rich) and poor fuel economy for example.

Good points. You could also do what us old folks did back in the day, block off a section of the radiator and reduce airflow through it. That will get her to warm up faster. I did that with a few vintage 1960's cars I owned for the winter months. LOL


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Factors that can affect warming up time [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5245549 10/21/19 04:08 AM
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Shannow Offline
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

I could be wrong here but I don't think changing the viscosity is going to have a dramatic effect on how fast your engine reaches operating temp. Since oil actually acts like a coolant, no matter what viscosity you run it will do the exact opposite (cool v. heat) of what you're trying to achieve.


No, you are wrong here...

The oil between the bearing surfaces carrries away heat, buit's heat that's generatedin the oilfilm itself...thicker,cooler oil,more RPMmeansmore heat,and faster warmup.


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
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