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Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. #5245156 10/20/19 03:09 PM
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Silvertone2000 Offline OP
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My son just bought a used 2018 Volvo S60 Cross Country with 22,000 miles. It has the 8 speed automatic, Aisin, I believe. I stopped by the dealer to get quotes for replacing ATF, transfer case fluid and differential fluid. Two service guys and one mechanic strongly cautioned me not to change the fluid. Ever. Something about the transmission adjusting to the changing viscosity of the fluid...

This sounds like absolute nonsense to me, but they were adamant on this, saying they've seen too many problems caused by changing the fluid.

I'm thinking about doing drain / fills at around 50 or 60k with factory atf, but don't want to give my son bad advice.

I will be eternally grateful for your thoughts!

Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245162 10/20/19 03:18 PM
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JEL01 Offline
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Lexus/Toyota say the same thing, but IMO it's all nonsense and I've chosen to ignore it and I'm still motoring happily in my rigs in the sig.

Once upon a time Mercedes said the same thing (for my sig era CLK) and they revised their recommendation later to ~39k drain/fill/filter changes after a series of autobox failures due to lack of service.

I'm not surprised they are parroting what their Volvo overlords tell them, however. We're in a throw away era and this helps them drive to total cost of ownership for the fist owner (on paper) and makes the "OMG 3 years free maintenance" commercials that lure buyers in a bit worthless as in those three years all they'll do is 3 oil changes.

Aisin units are known to be extremely durable and reliable long-term with just basic fluid changes, so I think you're on the right track, and definitely stick with OEM juice.


Cars I maintain:
02 Mercedes CLK430
09 Honda Accord V6
13 Lexus RX350 AWD
02 Toyota Tundra 4x4
18 Lexus GX460
Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245172 10/20/19 03:32 PM
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hallstevenson Offline
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Does the transmission, diff, and transfer case have drain and fill openings ? If they do, Volvo must want to accommodate changes at some point. Otherwise, why not skip the drilling and tapping operations as well as save the money on plugs, gaskets, etc ? Some might say "those only cost a couple dollars" and they're right and that's all the more reason to eliminate them.

This dealer says it can be changed and sometimes should be: https://www.volvocarsgilbert.com/se...fluid-service-information-gilbert-az.htm


Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245176 10/20/19 03:35 PM
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krismoriah72 Offline
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According to Volvo website

https://www.volvocars.com/en-eg/sup...ts/transmission-fluid---grade-and-volume

"The transmission fluid does not need to be changed under normal driving conditions. However, it may be necessary under adverse driving conditions"

Here is their definition of adverse driving conditions


towing a caravan or trailer
in mountainous regions
at high speeds
in temperatures colder than -30 °C or hotter than +40 °C.

The above also apply to shorter driving distances at low temperatures.

Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245199 10/20/19 04:05 PM
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I changed my 2010 Volvo v70 (Aisin 6 speed) at 60k, multiple drains and fills. The fluid still looked good(bright red), but I don't drive under adverse conditions. One Volvo dealer recommended that it be changed before 80K even though Volvo says a lifetime fluid. Also, the transmission has a "fluid Counter" and an "adaptation" that can be reset with VIDA software. I reset the counter but not the adaptation. The Volvo fluid counter counts the number of times the ATF temp exceeds a certain temperature, and if this counter is tripped, the car will go into limp mode.


2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Mobil 1 AP 5w-30
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30

Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245236 10/20/19 05:00 PM
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slacktide_bitog Offline
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welcome

You are right. It is nonsense!

Someone else on here posted a video from ZF explaining how "lifetime ATF" is a myth. The video is in German, with English subtitles.

Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245237 10/20/19 05:00 PM
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sdowney717 Offline
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The dealer knows if you dont change it, the trans will eventually self destruct long past the warrantee and give them a way of making more money off you.
They dont desire transmission to last too long. That is in their interest not the owners interest.
And about the temperature counter, consider using Lubegard red, it lowers fluid temps. And lowering even 10 degrees is a very good thing.

Last edited by sdowney717; 10/20/19 05:01 PM.
Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245241 10/20/19 05:05 PM
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Railrust Offline
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Lexus used to say the same thing on their 8 speed Aisins, but the funny thing was, that was ONLY for the US...all other countries were every 60,000 miles. So I changed mine every 40,000-60,000 miles. Simple drain and fills...did one pan drop with filter once. Never had an issue. My first service I did it at 70,000 miles (bought the car used) and the fluid was almost black. After that first one it was always clean.

Check and see what Volvo says to do in other countries, because the "lifetime" fluid thing here could just be to meet CAFE regulations (keep oil wastes down).

Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: slacktide_bitog] #5245260 10/20/19 05:28 PM
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nascarnation Offline
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Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
welcome

You are right. It is nonsense!

Someone else on here posted a video from ZF explaining how "lifetime ATF" is a myth. The video is in German, with English subtitles.



I'd wager if you could ask the Aisin engineers and/or service people they would say the same thing.

Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: nascarnation] #5245270 10/20/19 05:40 PM
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Kira Offline
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GENERALLY SPEAKING:
I see a "blackening" in new fluid after 50-60K. Refreshment fixes that.

Mazda3's in the family take Mazda type FZ. It's pale blue. Any connection to ZF?

Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245400 10/20/19 07:52 PM
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I have the same Aisin in my Buick/Opel/Vauxhall. GM’s severe service is 45k miles. 2 fill holes, one drain with a stand-pipe to check the level between 35-45C.

In 7k miles, I’ve changed the fluid twice now, it’s easier than the 6-spd Aisin that was in a MINI R53. First time I used Toyota WS, 2nd time Castrol Multi-vehicle. Hit me up if you want a how-to. I have Toyota and GM documents.


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450 Cutaway
19 Buick Regal TourX http://www.fuelly.com/car/buick/regal_tourx/2019/loti/943992
Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245450 10/20/19 08:44 PM
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They don't call them "$tealers" for nothing. That claim is utter balderdash!

Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245476 10/20/19 09:20 PM
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UG_Passat Online Content
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VW used to say the same thing about the 6-speed Aisin transmissions, and they were rewarded with numerous transmission issues, so they changed to a ATF drain & refill interval.

the 8-speed Aisin VW uses also has a ATF D&R interval, iirc it's rather high at 80,000 miles, but better than nothing.


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: slacktide_bitog] #5245519 10/20/19 11:31 PM
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discountdon Offline
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Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
welcome

You are right. It is nonsense!

Someone else on here posted a video from ZF explaining how "lifetime ATF" is a myth. The video is in German, with English subtitles.





'Lifetime transmission oil' is this the video you are referring to?

coffee


Valvoline Import ATF +SEAFOAM TRANSTUNE | 5W-20 +AUTO RX PLUS

sailing 3rd party additives are the elixir to drivetrain immortality
planned obsolescence WWFis traitorous to the world
Re: Volvo dealer cautions against ATF change. Ever. [Re: Silvertone2000] #5245616 10/21/19 05:37 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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There are a couple of reason why dealerships recommend against it.

Due to warranty and maintenance intervals set by the automaker the dealer technicians just don't have the experience doing this type of work. Customers simply are not going to bring their 7 yr old Volvo into the dealership to have the transmission fluid changed. It's just too expensive. The automaker/dealer don't want to be on the hook for a poorly performing transmission which was, allegedly, working just fine when it came in.



Personally I would wait. Transmissions, the filters, and ATF used today are not designed to require a change at such an early mileage as 22k. There is not one logical reason to have it done, however there's no harm in following the "severe service" interval prescribed by the transmission manufacturer.

For the record I just had my ZF8HP serviced last week (53k miles) which is right in the middle of what ZF considers their "severe service" interval. I'm out of warranty so I did it simply because it'll help with resale and provides with me piece-of-mind in the event I elect to keep the car.

Oh, and keep in mind with the ZF video above. Some context, that's in Germany where they drive at autobahn speeds which would qualify as "severe service".


Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 10/21/19 05:38 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

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