Recent Topics
You ever spray paint inside the house?
by atikovi - 11/14/19 09:48 AM
recent experience with Adv Auto
by windeye - 11/14/19 08:59 AM
Lifted Trucks
by Passport1 - 11/14/19 08:56 AM
Fleet oil intervals to save money?
by Todd00000 - 11/14/19 08:44 AM
Motive power brake bleeder
by Redright9 - 11/14/19 08:25 AM
*GRAPHENE* a new oil-additive????
by cadchris - 11/14/19 08:21 AM
STP mulit purpose motor treatment + fuel stabalizer
by Chris142 - 11/14/19 08:08 AM
"Universal" electric coolant circulation pump
by Superflan - 11/14/19 07:32 AM
Thermostat question
by nicholas - 11/14/19 07:13 AM
why michelin changed their tire lineup?
by edwardh1 - 11/14/19 07:12 AM
how do you mark your name on key fob?
by edwardh1 - 11/14/19 07:08 AM
"New EV Battery Can Charge in 10 Minutes..."
by wemay - 11/14/19 05:52 AM
TDS review
by Espada - 11/14/19 03:30 AM
SD40 Guide Rod ?'s
by GumbyJarvis - 11/14/19 01:08 AM
How many steps a day are you getting?
by P10crew - 11/14/19 12:45 AM
Pics - Top Piston Cleaning - Lexus CT200h
by KerryB - 11/14/19 12:14 AM
Valvoline Full Synthetic Maxlife 10w30
by KerryB - 11/13/19 11:38 PM
Toyota 1MZ-FE burning lots of oil
by Speedinsweede - 11/13/19 11:27 PM
Castrol Magnatec
by dosmom - 11/13/19 10:51 PM
Newest Members
PaulDouglas, DanF350man, Jasonoff, Speedinsweede, JeffS
69856 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
102 registered members (Andrei, 4WD, 1foxracing, alchargo, Alfred_B, alarmguy, 8 invisible), 2,243 guests, and 18 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics297,396
Posts5,114,659
Members69,856
Most Online3,589
Nov 2nd, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? #5242778 10/17/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
paulri Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
I saw this Engineering Explained video a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFImHhNwbJo

The guy says that a small 4 cylinder engine will require about 7 seconds worth of gas while idling, to start that engine. His point was that if you have to stop for more than 7 seconds, it would save fuel simply to cut off the engine.

I had a civic with a 4 cylinder 1.6 liter engine. Now, my cars have a 6--cylinder, 3.3L engine.

I'm wondering how much gas would be required to start these engines, compared to idling time. Would it still be about 7 seconds? Would it be about 14 (assuming an engine twice as large, would require that much more gas to start)?


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 163,000 miles
2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 118,000 miles
Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: paulri] #5242785 10/17/19 08:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 613
T
tcp71 Online Content
Online Content
T
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 613
It takes twice as much fuel while idling as well so should remain the same at Around 7 second.


2016 F150 Eco: Edge 0w40
2005 Sienna 3.3: NAPA 5w30 syn. (varies)
Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: paulri] #5242786 10/17/19 08:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 538
2
2010Civic Offline
Offline
2
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 538
I would guess it would be close to 7 seconds also?


2010 Honda Civic LX
Valvoline SynPower 5w-20 - Napa Gold oil filter
59,992 miles
Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: paulri] #5242952 10/18/19 05:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,748
B
billt460 Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,748
You could prove this out the easiest with most any vehicle that has a, "Start / Stop" device. Drive it with a tankful with the system activated. Then fill up and drive again under the same conditions with the system disabled, and compare the results. Most all the new cars that have "Start / Stop" also have a average MPG computer. Regardless of how accurate it is or isn't, it will be accurate enough for direct comparison purposes.

I'm willing to bet the difference is slight to immeasurable.

Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: billt460] #5242969 10/18/19 05:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 33,390
D
demarpaint Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 33,390
Originally Posted by billt460
You could prove this out the easiest with most any vehicle that has a, "Start / Stop" device. Drive it with a tankful with the system activated. Then fill up and drive again under the same conditions with the system disabled, and compare the results. Most all the new cars that have "Start / Stop" also have a average MPG computer. Regardless of how accurate it is or isn't, it will be accurate enough for direct comparison purposes.

I'm willing to bet the difference is slight to immeasurable.

I agree, slight to immeasurable fuel savings. Factoring in the annoyance factor, I'd make sure I disable it every time I drive if I owned a vehicle equipped with it.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: paulri] #5242985 10/18/19 06:21 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,736
P
philipp10 Offline
Offline
P
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,736
I rented a Kia Soul with start stop. It was done SO WELL that I didn't find it annoying at all. I have to believe it save quite a bit or they wouldn't do it.

Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: paulri] #5243013 10/18/19 06:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,403
R
ragtoplvr Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,403
This is one of many things that make me unhappy with new cars..

Aero headliights that cost $100 to ???? that will save maybe 25 gallons of gas over the life of the vehicle.

8,9,10 speed transmissions that will cost $3000 and up(mostly up) to rebuild, that can save you a whopping 1000 dollars of gas (27 ro 29 MPG) vs a 4 speed that costs 1500 to 2000

electric power steering that save maybe 200 dollars of fuel and $1000 and up to repair and do not drive like I am used to.

large diameter wheels that ride worse and tire cost is thru the roof.

Air bags in the seat that make fixing a simple rip cost $$$$

OHC to get big horsepower numbers and a belt change costs 500 and replace chain setup and guides is 2000 and up. And seems they always drip oil after that.

Direct injectors start stop starters. LED headlights. Plastic everywhere that splits after a few years.

This list goes on and on and on.

Rod

Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: paulri] #5243076 10/18/19 07:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
paulri Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

I was asking about how much fuel (in terms of seconds of idling) it took to start larger motors.


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 163,000 miles
2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 118,000 miles
Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: billt460] #5243219 10/18/19 10:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,577
L
Linctex Online Content
Online Content
L
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,577
Originally Posted by billt460

I'm willing to bet the difference is slight to immeasurable.


I beg to differ.

With a scanner plugged into the port, you can see exactly how much fuel the engine is using.
There's a *HUGE* difference in fuel usage between idling in "Neutral" and idling in "Drive" - sometimes a gallon or more burned per tank.

I think vehicle manufacturers would see more savings with "auto neutral" at a stoplight than "start/stop" honestly


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: ragtoplvr] #5243224 10/18/19 10:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,577
L
Linctex Online Content
Online Content
L
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,577
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
This is one of many things that make me unhappy with new cars..
8,9,10 speed transmissions that will cost $3000 and up(mostly up) to rebuild, that can save you a whopping 1000 dollars of gas (27 ro 29 MPG) vs a 4 speed that costs 1500 to 2000
electric power steering that save maybe 200 dollars of fuel and $1000 and up to repair and do not drive like I am used to.
large diameter wheels that ride worse and tire cost is thru the roof.


This list goes on and on and on.


I AGREE, ROD.

IT'S INSANE - but the vehicle manufactures have to meet the "magic number" - - - - and pass the costs on to us.

I have the same peeve with weedeaters, blowers, other small OPE, etc......
Most of these burn maybe 5 -10 gallon of gas their whole entire lifetime! (average homeowner)
Yet, due to emissions controls - - - they often end up in the trash long before they should have expired.
No one wants to talk about all the emissions from manufacturing them in the first place, or the waste/cost of disposal...............


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: Linctex] #5243586 10/18/19 04:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,748
B
billt460 Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,748
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by billt460

I'm willing to bet the difference is slight to immeasurable.

I beg to differ. With a scanner plugged into the port, you can see exactly how much fuel the engine is using.
There's a *HUGE* difference in fuel usage between idling in "Neutral" and idling in "Drive" - sometimes a gallon or more burned per tank. I think vehicle manufacturers would see more savings with "auto neutral" at a stoplight than "start/stop" honestly

When the engine is in drive it is under a load. Slight, but a load none the less. So naturally it is going to use more gas than if it's free wheeling in neutral. I shift into neutral during long lights to save transmission wear, not gas. I agree with you that "Auto Neutral" makes more sense from a fuel saving standpoint, than "Auto Start / Stop".

The problem with it is how would it know when to engage back into drive? If it waited until the driver demand it with throttle input, it would be constantly neutral dropping the transmission. It would require a, "fly by wire" accelerator that was run through the computer and brake pedal. Still more expensive complexity to save a few drops of gas.

Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: billt460] #5245326 10/20/19 06:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 504
P
Pew Online Content
Online Content
P
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 504
Originally Posted by billt460
You could prove this out the easiest with most any vehicle that has a, "Start / Stop" device. Drive it with a tankful with the system activated. Then fill up and drive again under the same conditions with the system disabled, and compare the results. Most all the new cars that have "Start / Stop" also have a average MPG computer. Regardless of how accurate it is or isn't, it will be accurate enough for direct comparison purposes.

I'm willing to bet the difference is slight to immeasurable.


It was "noticeable" in my ford focus, but you have to be actively measuring in order to see the difference. Most people won't but the savings isn't like it's going to make or break a record.

Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: ragtoplvr] #5245548 10/21/19 02:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,598
S
Skippy722 Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,598
Originally Posted by billt460


The problem with it is how would it know when to engage back into drive? If it waited until the driver demand it with throttle input, it would be constantly neutral dropping the transmission. It would require a, "fly by wire" accelerator that was run through the computer and brake pedal. Still more expensive complexity to save a few drops of gas.


Most, if not all, cars with traction control use fly by wire accelerators.

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
This is one of many things that make me unhappy with new cars..

Aero headliights that cost $100 to ???? that will save maybe 25 gallons of gas over the life of the vehicle.

8,9,10 speed transmissions that will cost $3000 and up(mostly up) to rebuild, that can save you a whopping 1000 dollars of gas (27 ro 29 MPG) vs a 4 speed that costs 1500 to 2000

electric power steering that save maybe 200 dollars of fuel and $1000 and up to repair and do not drive like I am used to.

large diameter wheels that ride worse and tire cost is thru the roof.

Air bags in the seat that make fixing a simple rip cost $$$$

OHC to get big horsepower numbers and a belt change costs 500 and replace chain setup and guides is 2000 and up. And seems they always drip oil after that.

Direct injectors start stop starters. LED headlights. Plastic everywhere that splits after a few years.

This list goes on and on and on.

Rod


I can buy a new OEM 8 speed transmission for my Chrysler 300 for $2,608.20, which includes a new torque converter. I’ll gladly pay $608.20 extra for a NEW transmission vs $2,000 to rebuild some inferior 4 speed slush box.

Last edited by Skippy722; 10/21/19 02:48 AM.

2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: paulri] #5246021 10/21/19 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 798
D
DGXR Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 798
With these conversations I think we should also factor in the additional wear and tear on the starter motor, battery, ignition switch, key lock, etc. I understand these would be very hard to factor in and maybe miniscule costs in the long-term, but also we are talking about the "cost" of idling an engine for 7 seconds, so...


1995 Corvette coupe LT1 6-speed
2006 Tacoma 2.7 Base SR5 AC
1999 Yamaha YZ400FL
2003 Honda XR400R
Re: How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine? [Re: DGXR] #5246058 10/21/19 01:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
paulri Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Are we? That was for a small four cylinder engine. I was wondering how much time it would take to start up a larger engine.

Originally Posted by DGXR
but also we are talking about the "cost" of idling an engine for 7 seconds, so...


2005 Toyota Sienna LE; 163,000 miles
2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 118,000 miles
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™