Clearly the UK lacks an Eighth Amendment.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/10138694/millions-drivers-faulty-wiper-fine/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/10138694/millions-drivers-faulty-wiper-fine/
£5,000 fine for driving with faulty wipers
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Hmm.
Quote
Police can charge you with driving without due care and attention if your driving with poor visibility, which carries a £100 on-the-spot fine and up to three penalty points on your licence.
But if challenged in court, you can face a £5,000 fine, nine penalty points and even a driving ban.
I'm not familiar with their laws, but it sounds to me like if you challenge the 100 pound fine then you could be liable up to 5k--but that's if you try to go to court over it. If you don't challenge your (well deserved?) fine then that is when the stakes get high.
Quote
Police can charge you with driving without due care and attention if your driving with poor visibility, which carries a £100 on-the-spot fine and up to three penalty points on your licence.
But if challenged in court, you can face a £5,000 fine, nine penalty points and even a driving ban.
I'm not familiar with their laws, but it sounds to me like if you challenge the 100 pound fine then you could be liable up to 5k--but that's if you try to go to court over it. If you don't challenge your (well deserved?) fine then that is when the stakes get high.
Originally Posted by supton
Hmm.
Quote
Police can charge you with driving without due care and attention if your driving with poor visibility, which carries a £100 on-the-spot fine and up to three penalty points on your licence.
But if challenged in court, you can face a £5,000 fine, nine penalty points and even a driving ban.
I'm not familiar with their laws, but it sounds to me like if you challenge the 100 pound fine then you could be liable up to 5k--but that's if you try to go to court over it. If you don't challenge your (well deserved?) fine then that is when the stakes get high.
Yep.
Hmm.
Quote
Police can charge you with driving without due care and attention if your driving with poor visibility, which carries a £100 on-the-spot fine and up to three penalty points on your licence.
But if challenged in court, you can face a £5,000 fine, nine penalty points and even a driving ban.
I'm not familiar with their laws, but it sounds to me like if you challenge the 100 pound fine then you could be liable up to 5k--but that's if you try to go to court over it. If you don't challenge your (well deserved?) fine then that is when the stakes get high.
Yep.
When you start running out of other peoples money the are two answers higher taxes or higher fines.
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I don't see anything wrong with this? Don't drive with faulty wipers, simples.
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
Sure, but many of those folks are rocking the latest cellphone and buy their cigs & booze from the local corner store, while making payments on a "nice" vehicle. Some people are truly impoverished, others... it's a bit more self-inflicted. I can't see into everyone else's checkbook, to see how they spend their money, but for a good deal of people, when they say they can't afford something, I often wonder, and look at their choices, and wonder if they could afford much more in life if they just made a few different decisions. That's not to throw rocks, I'm sure many could question my own choices (I sure could!) but all too often "I can't afford it!" is used as a convenient excuse.
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
Sure, but many of those folks are rocking the latest cellphone and buy their cigs & booze from the local corner store, while making payments on a "nice" vehicle. Some people are truly impoverished, others... it's a bit more self-inflicted. I can't see into everyone else's checkbook, to see how they spend their money, but for a good deal of people, when they say they can't afford something, I often wonder, and look at their choices, and wonder if they could afford much more in life if they just made a few different decisions. That's not to throw rocks, I'm sure many could question my own choices (I sure could!) but all too often "I can't afford it!" is used as a convenient excuse.
AZjeff
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Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
You could buy a lot of inexpensive wiper blades for the price of one tattoo I'll bet. Just an observation.
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
You could buy a lot of inexpensive wiper blades for the price of one tattoo I'll bet. Just an observation.
Originally Posted by Bailes1992
I don't see anything wrong with this? Don't drive with faulty wipers, simples.
Excessive fines are prohibited for a reason. One reason in this case, may be an alternative method of safety.
As an alternative method of visibility, an aviation version of Rain-X, for example, provides adequate visibility for Gulfstream aircraft. A far more critical situation.
If excessive fines are allowed, there is no limit or control over how much one can lose, and there is no limit as to how minor the infraction. Up to an including the loss of one's house, car, life savings and so on. It really is that simple.
I don't see anything wrong with this? Don't drive with faulty wipers, simples.
Excessive fines are prohibited for a reason. One reason in this case, may be an alternative method of safety.
As an alternative method of visibility, an aviation version of Rain-X, for example, provides adequate visibility for Gulfstream aircraft. A far more critical situation.
If excessive fines are allowed, there is no limit or control over how much one can lose, and there is no limit as to how minor the infraction. Up to an including the loss of one's house, car, life savings and so on. It really is that simple.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
A cell phone is required to work. Booze, cigs, tattoos is valid complaint, not phone.
I get that, although one can get a good one for $200 and then spend like $10 per month for service. I'm not sure that "many" know that they can go cheap on it. I'd be hard pressed to give up internet service at home, but cable tv just isn't worth it. So on and so forth, getting coffee at the drive up every morning, this vice, that vice, it all adds up.
Give up a couple vices and suddenly wiper blades are affordable. Preaching to the choir I know, but sometimes it has to be said.
A cell phone is required to work. Booze, cigs, tattoos is valid complaint, not phone.
I get that, although one can get a good one for $200 and then spend like $10 per month for service. I'm not sure that "many" know that they can go cheap on it. I'd be hard pressed to give up internet service at home, but cable tv just isn't worth it. So on and so forth, getting coffee at the drive up every morning, this vice, that vice, it all adds up.
Give up a couple vices and suddenly wiper blades are affordable. Preaching to the choir I know, but sometimes it has to be said.
That's one of the great things about freedom. You don't want to change your wipers? Fine. But when you have an accident and cause harm to someone and/or their property, there are consequences to pay. Fines are a poor way to ensure compliance, just look at "seat belt" fines. All fines are is a revenue stream for municipalities.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
Thats why it's recommended to be born rich, or at least pull yourself by the bootstraps.
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
Thats why it's recommended to be born rich, or at least pull yourself by the bootstraps.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
That's one of the great things about freedom. You don't want to change your wipers? Fine. But when you have an accident and cause harm to someone and/or their property, there are consequences to pay. Fines are a poor way to ensure compliance, just look at "seat belt" fines. All fines are is a revenue stream for municipalities.
So when you kill a family and face the consequences is better than preventing it?
That's a very deficient understanding of what freedom is.
That's one of the great things about freedom. You don't want to change your wipers? Fine. But when you have an accident and cause harm to someone and/or their property, there are consequences to pay. Fines are a poor way to ensure compliance, just look at "seat belt" fines. All fines are is a revenue stream for municipalities.
So when you kill a family and face the consequences is better than preventing it?
That's a very deficient understanding of what freedom is.
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
So when you kill a family and face the consequences is better than preventing it?
That's a very deficient understanding of what freedom is.
No, it's not deficient in the least. You are free to do what you desire, but if you kill, injure, harm, etc. someone or their property and you are held responsible for your actions. If you intend on fining everyone into compliance, there is zero freedom there; only compliance through fear.
Cujet's post hits it right on the head. The punishment needs to fit the crime. Bad wipers are not a crime.
So when you kill a family and face the consequences is better than preventing it?
That's a very deficient understanding of what freedom is.
No, it's not deficient in the least. You are free to do what you desire, but if you kill, injure, harm, etc. someone or their property and you are held responsible for your actions. If you intend on fining everyone into compliance, there is zero freedom there; only compliance through fear.
Cujet's post hits it right on the head. The punishment needs to fit the crime. Bad wipers are not a crime.
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
Thats why it's recommended to be born rich, or at least pull yourself by the bootstraps.
And to be diligent. It doesn't take too many financial oops to wind up at the bottom again. One doesn't need to be a miser but too many rich people (whatever asset or income level you feel "rich" is at) seem to be just a few missteps away from ruin.
As I find myself halfway to retirement and having a net value that is actually of value, I find myself thinking more and more about any financial decision--things I'd just do without thinking when I was younger now take hours (days, weeks, months) to figure out. Too many people I know seem to have "nothing" and I want to avoid that. Some seemed to have it all but when the income dried up they didn't pull back on expenses.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
Thats why it's recommended to be born rich, or at least pull yourself by the bootstraps.
And to be diligent. It doesn't take too many financial oops to wind up at the bottom again. One doesn't need to be a miser but too many rich people (whatever asset or income level you feel "rich" is at) seem to be just a few missteps away from ruin.
As I find myself halfway to retirement and having a net value that is actually of value, I find myself thinking more and more about any financial decision--things I'd just do without thinking when I was younger now take hours (days, weeks, months) to figure out. Too many people I know seem to have "nothing" and I want to avoid that. Some seemed to have it all but when the income dried up they didn't pull back on expenses.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
So when you kill a family and face the consequences is better than preventing it?
That's a very deficient understanding of what freedom is.
No, it's not deficient in the least. You are free to do what you desire, but if you kill, injure, harm, etc. someone or their property and you are held responsible for your actions. If you intend on fining everyone into compliance, there is zero freedom there; only compliance through fear.
Cujet's post hits it right on the head. The punishment needs to fit the crime. Bad wipers are not a crime.
It's not a crime, and it was a 100 pound fine, something I'd think we'd consider a $100 fine. Seems to be fitting to me. Presumably the reason why an officer would pull you over and see your wipers were bad was because one wasn't driving properly--there was some reason to be hit with that fine, and not just because "it could be a problem" but because it was a problem.
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
So when you kill a family and face the consequences is better than preventing it?
That's a very deficient understanding of what freedom is.
No, it's not deficient in the least. You are free to do what you desire, but if you kill, injure, harm, etc. someone or their property and you are held responsible for your actions. If you intend on fining everyone into compliance, there is zero freedom there; only compliance through fear.
Cujet's post hits it right on the head. The punishment needs to fit the crime. Bad wipers are not a crime.
It's not a crime, and it was a 100 pound fine, something I'd think we'd consider a $100 fine. Seems to be fitting to me. Presumably the reason why an officer would pull you over and see your wipers were bad was because one wasn't driving properly--there was some reason to be hit with that fine, and not just because "it could be a problem" but because it was a problem.
That law makes sense to me....just buy some new wipers, it's MUCH less expensive!
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
You could buy a lot of inexpensive wiper blades for the price of one tattoo I'll bet. Just an observation.
Agreed, I find the concept of "deeply spiritual" tattoos both sad and nauseating.
Not sure why so many folks that have no business having a tattoo have everything but their eyes blacked out with them.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
what is the fine for driving with a tiny peephole cleared thru the frost.?
There are a lot of impoverished folks in the USA that can not afford tires, wipers, lights, as they fail. There is not much public transport so they have to drive to work at their low paying job. it is a catch 22
Rod
You could buy a lot of inexpensive wiper blades for the price of one tattoo I'll bet. Just an observation.
Agreed, I find the concept of "deeply spiritual" tattoos both sad and nauseating.
Not sure why so many folks that have no business having a tattoo have everything but their eyes blacked out with them.
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