Synthetic vs Conventional Diff. Lube

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Originally Posted by Spddm0n



I've also run into murky waters, dealing with LSD additives. All the vehicles have LSD, some with break-away-torque figures that vary wildly, so I'm trying to find answers to concentration levels of LSD additives in each product. I was hoping to either use an oil with NO modifier in it and add my own, or find a conventional oil that has *some* additive in it (marketed as appropriate for LSD differentials) and try that on the majority of the vehicles, and add more additive if there is still chatter on some of the more aggressive LSD's in some vehicles.

I became super confused when Valvoline told me they add 4 oz of additive to each quart of 80W-90 synthetic gear oil, when the average bottle of additive sold separately suggests 4 oz per 2-quart axle (add more if larger than 2 quart axles). I was also told my the Napa guys that most of their customers complained they still had chatter when using the full synthetic gear oil (supposedly with 4 oz modifier in each quart) so they are all adding more, even to the synthetic. Having said that, Napa guys didn't know the conventional oil "used" to have LSD additives in it, until a year ago, and then Valvoline just removed the additives and didn't tell anyone - and continued using the same part number and removed the "Limited Slip" from the bottle. Ugh!

I wonder if WPP would comment on the amount of LSD additives (oz per quart) in their ST synthetic 75W-90? That might help me understand where to go from here. That viscosity looks like it should work in my applications. I don't have any idea what the kinematic viscosity was in the OEM 75W-85 from Nissan.


I thought I had read on here over a decade ago that the lsd additive actually somehow hardens or otherwise favorably affects the metal surfaces so it's not a bad thing to have in there at a "heavy" dose. Not sure how much of an effect too much has when the torque settings are set at different levels though...
 
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...I don't have any idea what the kinematic viscosity was in the OEM 75W-85 from Nissan.


My sample came in at 13.5 cSt.
 
Originally Posted by Spddm0n

...I've also run into murky waters, dealing with LSD additives. All the vehicles have LSD, some with break-away-torque figures that vary wildly, so I'm trying to find answers to concentration levels of LSD additives in each product. I was hoping to either use an oil with NO modifier in it and add my own, or find a conventional oil that has *some* additive in it (marketed as appropriate for LSD differentials) and try that on the majority of the vehicles, and add more additive if there is still chatter on some of the more aggressive LSD's in some vehicles...



No manf. or blender will tell you the level of any additive including the LS chemistry.

If all of the vehicles have LSD's, then I would suggest putting in a virgin LSD oil.

If after warmup and doing figure eights it doesn't chirp, shudder, or grind, you are good to go.

If it does, add a 4 oz. of FM and then do figure eights in a parking lot with your window rolled down. If the noises go away, you are good to go.

If it still chirps, shudders, or grinds, then add more FM in 4 oz. additional increments until it stops.

Too much FM and the flat or cone clutches could slip when you really need traction.

Now, none of the above suggestions apply of course to Torsen differentials.

I have experienced different spring loadings in the same differential model (Tag number) because of the vehicle that it went into, for example, a light duty truck verses a heavy duty truck.
 
Originally Posted by zeng
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What is the rule of thumb (or is it not that simple) when choosing a gear oil? I'm also trying to see if I can match the oil choice with some other vehicles my friends have, in order to try and keep overall costs down (buying by the 5 gallon bucket).

According to machinerylubrication or AGMA :

KV@40*C of gear oil to be selected = 7000 divided by (square root of V, linear velocity of contacting gears in feet per minute )

Can you point me to a link describing this (even though I don't know I could easily calculate the velocity)...the 7000 parts sounds random. I would like to confirm this.
 
Originally Posted by badtlc
Originally Posted by Spddm0n

What is the rule of thumb (or is it not that simple) when choosing a gear oil? I'm also trying to see if I can match the oil choice with some other vehicles my friends have, in order to try and keep overall costs down (buying by the 5 gallon bucket).


My rule of thumb would be match the GL rating the manufacturer specifies (GL-4, GL-5, etc.).

Match the 2nd number in the viscosity spec XW-##. 75W-90 will be perfect for an 80W-90 application.

I don't believe SuperTech has any LSD additives.

Thank you. It's just that many of the 75W-90's and 80W-90's all have ranges that cross over each other.
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I was trying to determine how I might choose a 75W-90 product in place of a 80W-90.
 
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Quote


...I don't have any idea what the kinematic viscosity was in the OEM 75W-85 from Nissan.


My sample came in at 13.5 cSt.



Excellent. Thanks for the info!
 
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Spddm0n

...I've also run into murky waters, dealing with LSD additives. All the vehicles have LSD, some with break-away-torque figures that vary wildly, so I'm trying to find answers to concentration levels of LSD additives in each product. I was hoping to either use an oil with NO modifier in it and add my own, or find a conventional oil that has *some* additive in it (marketed as appropriate for LSD differentials) and try that on the majority of the vehicles, and add more additive if there is still chatter on some of the more aggressive LSD's in some vehicles...


Originally Posted by MolaKule

No manf. or blender will tell you the level of any additive including the LS chemistry.

I would have thought that too, but the guy at Valvoline either told me the concentration. Either he did so without really knowing what he's talking about, or it's no longer a secret to them.
Originally Posted by MolaKule

If all of the vehicles have LSD's, then I would suggest putting in a virgin LSD oil.

By virgin LSD, do you mean "no lsd" or an oil marketed as LSD, but with unknown concentration of additives?
Originally Posted by MolaKule

If after warmup and doing figure eights it doesn't chirp, shudder, or grind, you are good to go.

If it does, add a 4 oz. of FM and then do figure eights in a parking lot with your window rolled down. If the noises go away, you are good to go.

If it still chirps, shudders, or grinds, then add more FM in 4 oz. additional increments until it stops.

Too much FM and the flat or cone clutches could slip when you really need traction.

Yeah, that's what I learned from a LubeGard website, regarding their LSD additive (concentrated). Check out this statement on their website...
[Linked Image]


Originally Posted by MolaKule

I have experienced different spring loadings in the same differential model (Tag number) because of the vehicle that it went into, for example, a light duty truck verses a heavy duty truck.

Interesting...yeah, that could be part of what I'm experiencing too. I hadn't thought of that. I have two different LSD with different levels of break-away-torque, but I also have two different weight vehicles. the Frontier has a lighter weight above the rear wheels (open bed pickup) and the Xterra is much heavier in the back. Thanks for the thought on this! That will help me dial it in.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by badtlc
I don't believe SuperTech has any LSD additives.

As per email from Warren Distribution, ST gear lubes Do Contain LS additive.


Interesting. There are zero mentions of that on the bottles in my hand.
 
Originally Posted by Spddm0n

...By virgin LSD, do you mean "no lsd" or an oil marketed as LSD, but with unknown concentration of additives?...
MolaKule said:
I was referring to a gear oil bottle or container marked, "LSD" or "Contains an LSD additive, " i.e, one off the shelf with those markings before any External FM was added.
 
Originally Posted by badtlc
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by badtlc
I don't believe SuperTech has any LSD additives.

As per email from Warren Distribution, ST gear lubes Do Contain LS additive.


Interesting. There are zero mentions of that on the bottles in my hand.

That is why I sent WD an email. I wanted a confirmation before I put it in my LS equipped F150. It's working fine (ST 75w-140) in the F150.
 
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