Non-DPF engine oil in Diesel BMW F10

Joined
Oct 9, 2019
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2
Location
Chandigarh, India
Hi, I have BMW f10 525d 2013 make with 65k KM on it, I have done engine oil change diy for the first time,
I brought 5.5 ltrs of Castrol Edge 5-W-40 for it. I have two queries regarding oil change I did.
The Castrol jugs that I brought were of BMW long-lige-01 spec, but I have heard that BMW recommends long-life-04 spec oil for diesel engine cars, but the problem is that no long-life-04 spec engine oil is available in my city
should I be worried running non-DPF oil in Diesel BMW 525?

The second query is that I brought three jugs of Castrol Edge 5-W-40, one of 3.5 ltr and two of 1 ltrs (since no packing of 5.25 ltrs was available)
3.5 ltr jug was labeled "5W40 A3/B4" and 2x 1 ltrs was labeled "5W40 SN"
are A3/B4 & SN same thing?


anything else you guys would like to recommend to a newbie that should be kept in mind while doing an oil change?

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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
At a minimum you want an ACEA C3 / API CK-4 oil.


+1

ACEA C3 for sure. In addition these oils will very likely have Mercedes Benz 229.51 / VW 504/507 / Porsche C30
 
Clearly the one on the left says "Not suitable for vehicles fitted with with diesel particulate filters" in the red band!!!
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
At a minimum you want an ACEA C3 / API CK-4 oil.


+1

ACEA C3 for sure. In addition these oils will very likely have Mercedes Benz 229.51 / VW 504/507 / Porsche C30

This...or BMW LL-04 spec! These are all "DPF friendly" specs!
 
Thank you guys for all your responses & pardon me, I am new to this whole car maintenance scene so I am learning about how components work in car,
I am trying to find that how long can I run this oil in my engine before problem can occur? What type of problem could occur using LL01 engine oil in DPF equipped car? Should I change the engine oil before driving further or I can drive the car for few thousand miles? is there anyway to find out this by checking DPF state or any other method?

Thanks

PS: can someone recommend me source like book or videos to understand the working of modern car?
 
Originally Posted by L93013
Thank you guys for all your responses & pardon me, I am new to this whole car maintenance scene so I am learning about how components work in car,
I am trying to find that how long can I run this oil in my engine before problem can occur? What type of problem could occur using LL01 engine oil in DPF equipped car? Should I change the engine oil before driving further or I can drive the car for few thousand miles? is there anyway to find out this by checking DPF state or any other method?

Thanks

PS: can someone recommend me source like book or videos to understand the working of modern car?



You should change the oil as soon as possible. Your DPF has a fixed service life and using LL01 will reduce the service life by some amount. How much, entirely depends on your driving conditions and miles driven. If I remember correctly there is software which you can hook up to your vehicle to determine the remaining life of your DPF and force the vehicle to regen* the DPF.

*Regeneration: The DPF loads up with soot after a certain amount of miles and once the pressure differential reaches a certain point fuel will be injected into the exhaust stream to burn off this soot. After burn off some ash remains behind. Oil additives are a component of this ash and it's why you want to use LL04 because they leave less ash behind than LL01.


If you want videos I would just search YouTube.
 
Change your FULL saps oil ASAP....you will block your DPF soon...

Full saps oils produce more ash when they get burnt...and that ash will block your DPF...moreover ash from FULL saps oils is different then that from mid/low saps oils....it can not be burnt that easily as one from oils wich are intended for DPF equiped cars...

Get the oil with specs mentioned above....in reality it doesnt really matter if spec come from MB or VW or BMW as long as it is "DPF friendly"

Change your oil in dependency how clean/eco (Sulfur levels!) is your diesel fuel there...

If you have sulphur free diesel go aprox 10-15kkms...if not split that interval by half...
 
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As others have suggested, please move to an LL-04 oil.

Here are a few options on Amazon india.

Liqui Moly TopTec 4100 5w40 - https://www.amazon.in/Liqui-Moly-9511-Synthetic-Petrol/dp/B00VP51BIE/

Liqui Moly TopTec 4200 5w30 - https://www.amazon.in/Liqui-Moly-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B00CPL8R8O/

Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 - https://www.amazon.in/Mobil-5W-30-F...obil+1+esp&qid=1571731136&sr=8-1

Amsoil Synthetic 5W-40 I-ESP Euro Oil - https://www.amazon.in/Amsoil-Synthetic-5W-40-I-ESP-Euro/dp/B00BSQIEEE

Motul also have an oil in India that is BMW LL-04 rated. Its called 8100 X-clean. Please reach out to Motul via their Indian page, the are prompt in responding with the local dealer for your city.
 
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
..

Get the oil with specs mentioned above....in reality it doesnt really matter if spec come from MB or VW or BMW as long as it is "DPF friendly"



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Originally Posted by L93013
Thank you guys for all your responses & pardon me, I am new to this whole car maintenance scene so I am learning about how components work in car,
I am trying to find that how long can I run this oil in my engine before problem can occur? What type of problem could occur using LL01 engine oil in DPF equipped car? Should I change the engine oil before driving further or I can drive the car for few thousand miles? is there anyway to find out this by checking DPF state or any other method?

Thanks

PS: can someone recommend me source like book or videos to understand the working of modern car?


The car will not explode or DPF will not clog fast. You should change it as soon as possible, but running full-SAPS oil does not mean DPF will clog, it means if you run that oil constantly, DPF lifespan will be cut short.
As many mentioned, you want ACEA C3, BMW LL04 and in addition to that look that oil also carries VW 504.00/507.00 and MB 229.51.
 
Change your FULL saps oil ASAP....you will block your DPF soon...

Full saps oils produce more ash when they get burnt...and that ash will block your DPF...moreover ash from FULL saps oils is different then that from mid/low saps oils....it can not be burnt that easily as one from oils wich are intended for DPF equiped cars...

Get the oil with specs mentioned above....in reality it doesnt really matter if spec come from MB or VW or BMW as long as it is "DPF friendly"

Change your oil in dependency how clean/eco (Sulfur levels!) is your diesel fuel there...

If you have sulphur free diesel go aprox 10-15kkms...if not split that interval by half...

You're on here long enough to know that that statement is not entirely true. I agree in that, if you continuously run full saps oil you shorten the DPF life by a certain amount. The less oil you burn the less the DPF life shortening.

I disagree with the fact that you state that the ash from full saps is different to saps from low ash oils. The ash is the same, the base oil and chemistry of additives between full and mid saps and low saps is the same. Zinc/Phosphorous is what produces ash that blocks the DPF - and you will find Zinc and Ph. in full saps, mid saps and low saps oil, just the amount in ppm will vary. Same for calcium, magnesium and if used moly and boron.

Also you will find low sulphur base oils as well as high sulphur base oils in Acea C3 as well as A3/B4 variants.


Just from personal experience (which has no statistical value since n=very small): My VW with 3.0 TDI engine which has been run all its life on VW 507/504 oils had its DPF cleaned at 165.000k

My Peugeot 807 variant of a Lancia Phedra with DPF calls from the factory for Selenia Turbo DIesel (ACEA A3/B4) oil - DPF has been changed at its specified interval at around 155.000km if I remeber right.

Both DPF's are similar in size, the VW has a 6 cyl engine, the Lancia 4 cyl.
 
I've been running full saps oil in my dpf equipped car since the second oil change. I'm at the rated service life of the dpf right now with no ill effects. No issues with EGR yet either. In fact, after 8 years and 100k miles, the MIL has yet to turn on...

DPFs existed before the low and mid-saps oils did. If the implementation of the DPF is good you don't need the low saps, and if it's bad the low saps won't help. It might get you through the warranty period but I don't see that as helping YOU.
 
as I thought - as long as you are not burning significant amount of oil there likely wont be an issue.

If you take a look in the heavy industries world: Almost everything is DPF equipped now, and the HDEO Low Saps oil are around 1% with variation lower and higher SA content. Is there any difference in the DPF's apart from them beeing bigger? None that I know of.

So now knowing that heavy industry machinery can run higher saps oil in their DPF equipped machines I dont worry much anymore.

Just wondering: What has drawn you to the Quartz 9000 energy for your Alfa @Jetronic? Also why 0W30 - given your environment?
In terms of EGR: I think with the EGR the most important value is NOACK - the less volatile oil fumes in the intake the less sludgy mess ....
 
The 0w30 means at least some of the base oil is PAO, not so with 5w-30 or 5w-40. I also wanted 3.5 cP HTHS vs the 2.9 minimum (though in reality likely 3.2 ish for the Selenia) for the factory recommendations. Also SAPS is around 1%, just under... extra calcium, extra phosporous compared to C2/3 oils and TBN of 8. MB 229.5 approval back then too

I bought a lifetime supply when the car was new at 3 euro per litre, the reformulated quartz is 10 TBN, and even higher calcium/phosporous.

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good approach, on my 2019 1.6 JTDM2 they specify 0W20 Selenia (altough C2 so minimum 2.9 HTHS). Personally I dont trust 0W20 in a Diesel (even with ACEA C2), so I'm using 5W30 ACEA C3 (and look for VW 504/507 as well as MB 229.51). 0W20 with ACEA C2 and Fiat spec is also a interesting move since there's as far as I know no other oil than Selenia which has these specs.

Since I'm only using it between spring til fall - I'm even thinking about 10W40, but haven't tried it yet. Still unsure, wether Alfa really adopted the engine to such thin oil - or just uses it as a CO2 reduction method. If I would have to guess, its part of a CO2 fleet emissions lowering program.
Basically the same engine before was specced for 0W30 (before AdBlue) and 5W30. And from what I hear and read its basically a slightly smaller version of the old 1.9 JTD which had 5W40 specced.

Currently I have a good supply of Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro C3 5W30 for the car but also Fuchs TItan GT1 C3 5W40 and Ravenol Euro VI Truck in the shed. Plenty of options to play with.

Right now I'm running Ravenol REP 5W30, PAO based oil with tungsten and moly. Noack of 6.2% is also nice. Runs smooth, but I don't feel any feelable difference to the Petronas Syntium 5000 AV 5W30 that I've used before in the Alfa.
 
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