5W oil vs 0W oil - How much more wear in real life conditions?

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And to be clear, none of which has to do with wear (unless there is catastrophic wear due to starvation at the pump pickup tube).
 
Thanks everyone this confirms it and my fear of using 5W oils is now completely abolished. This opens up to some nice options like even Liquy Moly. But I am probably going to stick with Pennzoil from now on.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
PP Euro 5w40 MRV viscosity is 19 500 cP at - 35*c .

M1 FS 0w40 MRV viscosity is 21 600 cP at - 40*c .




Actually PP Euro 5w40 (SN PLUS edition) has a MRV viscosity of just 17000 cP at - 35*c

(And PP EURO 0W40 (again SN PLUS) has a MRV viscosity of 18800 cP at -40 C)
 
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Originally Posted by kschachn
And to be clear, none of which has to do with wear (unless there is catastrophic wear due to starvation at the pump pickup tube).


Where I live, it is not uncommon to hear a car or truck whine and clatter for a couple of MINUTES after a very cold start at - 25*C ( - 13*F ) or colder. And then the sounds just stop, apparently after the oil hits the bearings / cams / lifters etc.

It seems like an engine can run just fine for a few minutes with no oil, and not cause any long term harm. There IS still some oil clinging to parts, and at idle there is near zero load.

And metal slides against metal pretty good, for a little while at least.
 
Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by geeman789
PP Euro 5w40 MRV viscosity is 19 500 cP at - 35*c .

M1 FS 0w40 MRV viscosity is 21 600 cP at - 40*c .




(And PP EURO 0W40 has a MRV viscosity of 18800 cP at -40 C)



How about good old conventional yellow bottle 20w50 ...

MRV viscosity is 25 000 cP at a much " warmer ... " - 20*c.


What these number show is that if you don't get the 0*F ( - 18*C ) or colder temps, almost any multi-grade oil will work OK. We over think some of this stuff ...
 
In most well-running engines in normal temperatures, there will be no difference. In my XTerra, which I've read early versions of that engine are known for leaking down if they sit for a while, I noticed a few seconds of valvetrain noise at cold startup with 5w-40 HDEO, but none with 5w-30. Despite both being 5w oils, the 5w-30 is noticeably thinner at ambient temperature.

Since most engine wear occurs at startup, I figured the thinner oil that causes it to make less noise is better overall.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789


What these number show is that if you don't get the 0*F ( - 18*C ) or colder temps, almost any multi-grade oil will work OK. We over think some of this stuff ...



(And I know I don't live in the frigid prairies but even so, me in Southern Ontario, there seems to be at least a few nights every winter where I see -18 C or lower).
 
Originally Posted by Anduril

Since most engine wear occurs at startup, I figured the thinner oil that causes it to make less noise is better overall.

I totally understand the noise at startup thing but fwiw, you're not dry starting, unless you've been sitting for a year.. even then you still have some oil film present and AW addys that plated during the last run. I don't live anywhere near the arctic circle so the whole 0w/5w debate is pointless, both lubes will do just fine where I'm at. The main concern (not "will a 5w grenade my engine") when it comes to cold starts should be keeping your rpms down, as much as possible, until the oils up to temp.

The EP/AW addys are largely ineffective until you get to operating range. I'm not suggesting idling for 20mins, I'm just saying take it easy on the throttle those first few miles, if wear is something that genuinely concerns you....
 
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Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
I have 2011 BMW 335is. It seems my Castrol LL1 0W-40 A3/B4 oil is being phased out here in Canada. I'm a spec guy so I like to fllow manual recommendations and manual says LL01 so this limits me in terms of oil selection. The only oil at local auto stores left is the Pennzoil Euro ultra platinum 5W-40. I'm happy to try that I just wanted to ask to you folks how much "wear" am I adding in getting a 5W compared to 0W in winter temps? My winter averages are around -20c (-4F), sometimes on cold morning it can rarely be -30c (-22f). It's my understanding that is still somewhat OK for a 5W oil right and 0W only required for more extreme colds? My manual also lists grades to be used in conjunction with LL01 spec are 0W-40, 5W-40, 0W-30, 5W-30. I prefer to stick with 40s since I am tuned.

TLDR: In real life conditions, how much cold start/running wear protection am I loosing by going from a 0W-40 oil to 5W-40 in temperatures around -25c (13f).

Nothing will happen.
I used Valvoline 5W40 MST in X5 with M57 diesel engine and started it as low as -39c. If you are concerned about cold start you can order some Ravenol that has LL01 approvals and make 0W30 and 0W40 grade. I would go though in your case with 5W30 oil and not 5W40. Can you get your hands on BMW TPT 5W30? It is really good oil.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
I have 2011 BMW 335is. It seems my Castrol LL1 0W-40 A3/B4 oil is being phased out here in Canada. I'm a spec guy so I like to fllow manual recommendations and manual says LL01 so this limits me in terms of oil selection. The only oil at local auto stores left is the Pennzoil Euro ultra platinum 5W-40. I'm happy to try that I just wanted to ask to you folks how much "wear" am I adding in getting a 5W compared to 0W in winter temps? My winter averages are around -20c (-4F), sometimes on cold morning it can rarely be -30c (-22f). It's my understanding that is still somewhat OK for a 5W oil right and 0W only required for more extreme colds? My manual also lists grades to be used in conjunction with LL01 spec are 0W-40, 5W-40, 0W-30, 5W-30. I prefer to stick with 40s since I am tuned.

TLDR: In real life conditions, how much cold start/running wear protection am I loosing by going from a 0W-40 oil to 5W-40 in temperatures around -25c (13f).

Nothing will happen.
I used Valvoline 5W40 MST in X5 with M57 diesel engine and started it as low as -39c. If you are concerned about cold start you can order some Ravenol that has LL01 approvals and make 0W30 and 0W40 grade. I would go though in your case with 5W30 oil and not 5W40. Can you get your hands on BMW TPT 5W30? It is really good oil.


I already bought 10 litres of Pennzoii Platinum Euro 5W-40. That said I don't think 5W-30 is good on this car. Everyone recommends 40. And I rather also not pay 120$ in oil for just one oil change.
 
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
I have 2011 BMW 335is. It seems my Castrol LL1 0W-40 A3/B4 oil is being phased out here in Canada. I'm a spec guy so I like to fllow manual recommendations and manual says LL01 so this limits me in terms of oil selection. The only oil at local auto stores left is the Pennzoil Euro ultra platinum 5W-40. I'm happy to try that I just wanted to ask to you folks how much "wear" am I adding in getting a 5W compared to 0W in winter temps? My winter averages are around -20c (-4F), sometimes on cold morning it can rarely be -30c (-22f). It's my understanding that is still somewhat OK for a 5W oil right and 0W only required for more extreme colds? My manual also lists grades to be used in conjunction with LL01 spec are 0W-40, 5W-40, 0W-30, 5W-30. I prefer to stick with 40s since I am tuned.

TLDR: In real life conditions, how much cold start/running wear protection am I loosing by going from a 0W-40 oil to 5W-40 in temperatures around -25c (13f).

Nothing will happen.
I used Valvoline 5W40 MST in X5 with M57 diesel engine and started it as low as -39c. If you are concerned about cold start you can order some Ravenol that has LL01 approvals and make 0W30 and 0W40 grade. I would go though in your case with 5W30 oil and not 5W40. Can you get your hands on BMW TPT 5W30? It is really good oil.


I already bought 10 litres of Pennzoii Platinum Euro 5W-40. That said I don't think 5W-30 is good on this car. Everyone recommends 40. And I rather also not pay 120$ in oil for just one oil change.



The 30 and 40 thing is very minor difference, unless you are talking about 30 weight with *FE nomenclature. Both the normal 30 and 40 weight are both minimum 3.5 HTHS and not a whole lot of viscosity difference. However the 30 weight FE is 3.1 HTHS and IMO would be fine for street use but I would not track it (road course).
 
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Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh


I already bought 10 litres of Pennzoii Platinum Euro 5W-40. That said I don't think 5W-30 is good on this car. Everyone recommends 40. And I rather also not pay 120$ in oil for just one oil change.



PP Euro 5w40 has, or used to have the FERRARI approval ... who can argue with that ! And when on sale at CDN Tire, it's a smoking' deal.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh


I already bought 10 litres of Pennzoii Platinum Euro 5W-40. That said I don't think 5W-30 is good on this car. Everyone recommends 40. And I rather also not pay 120$ in oil for just one oil change.



PP Euro 5w40 has, or used to have the FERRARI approval ... who can argue with that ! And when on sale at CDN Tire, it's a smoking' deal.

Except Ferrari approval does not exists.
 
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
I have 2011 BMW 335is. It seems my Castrol LL1 0W-40 A3/B4 oil is being phased out here in Canada. I'm a spec guy so I like to fllow manual recommendations and manual says LL01 so this limits me in terms of oil selection. The only oil at local auto stores left is the Pennzoil Euro ultra platinum 5W-40. I'm happy to try that I just wanted to ask to you folks how much "wear" am I adding in getting a 5W compared to 0W in winter temps? My winter averages are around -20c (-4F), sometimes on cold morning it can rarely be -30c (-22f). It's my understanding that is still somewhat OK for a 5W oil right and 0W only required for more extreme colds? My manual also lists grades to be used in conjunction with LL01 spec are 0W-40, 5W-40, 0W-30, 5W-30. I prefer to stick with 40s since I am tuned.

TLDR: In real life conditions, how much cold start/running wear protection am I loosing by going from a 0W-40 oil to 5W-40 in temperatures around -25c (13f).

Nothing will happen.
I used Valvoline 5W40 MST in X5 with M57 diesel engine and started it as low as -39c. If you are concerned about cold start you can order some Ravenol that has LL01 approvals and make 0W30 and 0W40 grade. I would go though in your case with 5W30 oil and not 5W40. Can you get your hands on BMW TPT 5W30? It is really good oil.


I already bought 10 litres of Pennzoii Platinum Euro 5W-40. That said I don't think 5W-30 is good on this car. Everyone recommends 40. And I rather also not pay 120$ in oil for just one oil change.

BMW TPT 5W30 LL01 will be perfectly fine in N54. HTHS of TPT is 3.58, HTHS of Pennzoil 5W40 is 3.6. HTHS is what matters.
Of course if price difference is too big, it is not worth it. Do you have access to Castrol Edge 0W30?
 
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My whole life i was told that most engine wear happens when i start a engine, especially when cold start.

That 10w- Oils need much more time to reach all parts, to build up pressure, to lube all parts, especially the parts far away from the pump. Camshafts etc.

The engine runs for some seconds without proper lubrication, causing wear. The cold start clatter means wear, in my opinion.

When i start my car after it sit for one or two weeks, the oil pressure light sometimes need one or even two seconds to go off. To me, this means unnecessary wear of the engine.
When i start the hot engine, e.g. after a fuel stop, the oil ist thin. The oil pressure light go off in the blink of a eye. No engine wear.

I am very affraid of cold start wear and will continue to use 5w- or 0w- oils even in Summer.
 
Originally Posted by ChristianReske

I am very affraid of cold start wear and will continue to use 5w- or 0w- oils even in Summer.

You might want to read up on that, in summer the "cold start wear" between 0W-30, 5W-30 or even 10W-30 is pretty much the same. There have been countless discussions about it here.
 
I really, really have a hard time to belive that there is no difference, even in Summer.

I value BITOG and the knowlegde here very, very much, but this cold start - oiling problem is the only point where i have a hard time to believe what people say.
As i wrote, my engine oil pressure light tells me a differenrt story. There IS a difference, even in Summer.

I think you ned a engine with the valve cover removed and test the difference, watching how long it takes until the oil squirts out on the cams to finally get some results.
 
It is difficult to say without personal examination, but your anectdotal evidence could indicate drain back of oil from the block channels back to the pan when the engine is stopped for a long time. This is usually an oil pump or anti-drain valve issue. If you are actually getting an oil pressure light on cold start that indicates a mechanical issue as that is not normal.

I have started nearly gelled engines at-30 f and didn't get the oil pressure light but yes they did make a racket even using 0w30. I blame the -30 not the oil. Engine parts don't fit the same due to the way that materials shrink when very cold. As soon as the block temp came up as indicated by having the coolant temp gauge budge just a little, the noise went away.

Even given that there will be no difference between a 0w and a 10w multigrade engine oil in re-priming your oiling system at all but extreme cold temperatures.

Originally Posted by ChristianReske
I really, really have a hard time to belive that there is no difference, even in Summer.

I value BITOG and the knowlegde here very, very much, but this cold start - oiling problem is the only point where i have a hard time to believe what people say.
As i wrote, my engine oil pressure light tells me a differenrt story. There IS a difference, even in Summer.

I think you ned a engine with the valve cover removed and test the difference, watching how long it takes until the oil squirts out on the cams to finally get some results.
 
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Originally Posted by ChristianReske
I really, really have a hard time to belive that there is no difference, even in Summer.

I value BITOG and the knowlegde here very, very much, but this cold start - oiling problem is the only point where i have a hard time to believe what people say.
As i wrote, my engine oil pressure light tells me a differenrt story. There IS a difference, even in Summer.

I think you ned a engine with the valve cover removed and test the difference, watching how long it takes until the oil squirts out on the cams to finally get some results.

Plot the viscosity yourself and see the difference in summer.

The winter rating does not determine viscosity except at low temperatures. Until then it is still the other end of the grade designation.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by geeman789


PP Euro 5w40 has, or used to have the FERRARI approval ... who can argue with that ! And when on sale at CDN Tire, it's a smoking' deal.




Except Ferrari approval does not exists.


Website still mentions Ferrari. My last jug, however, did not ...

[Linked Image]
 
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