5W oil vs 0W oil - How much more wear in real life conditions?

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I have 2011 BMW 335is. It seems my Castrol LL1 0W-40 A3/B4 oil is being phased out here in Canada. I'm a spec guy so I like to fllow manual recommendations and manual says LL01 so this limits me in terms of oil selection. The only oil at local auto stores left is the Pennzoil Euro ultra platinum 5W-40. I'm happy to try that I just wanted to ask to you folks how much "wear" am I adding in getting a 5W compared to 0W in winter temps? My winter averages are around -20c (-4F), sometimes on cold morning it can rarely be -30c (-22f). It's my understanding that is still somewhat OK for a 5W oil right and 0W only required for more extreme colds? My manual also lists grades to be used in conjunction with LL01 spec are 0W-40, 5W-40, 0W-30, 5W-30. I prefer to stick with 40s since I am tuned.

TLDR: In real life conditions, how much cold start/running wear protection am I loosing by going from a 0W-40 oil to 5W-40 in temperatures around -25c (13f).
 
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The winter rating affects cold-start capability (cranking and flow to the oil pump pickup tube) and possibly fuel consumption. It is not about wear. Oil-related wear occurs when the MOFT is below a minimum requirement and this is not a concern at any temperature below operating.

An oil with a 5W winter rating is just as pumpable as one with a 0W rating at -22F.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5236747/cold-start-engine-wear
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5236811/why-does-toyota-recommend-0w-20
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
The winter rating affects cold-start capability (cranking and flow to the oil pump pickup tube) it is not about wear.

An oil with a 5W winter rating is just as pumpable as one with a 0W rating at -22F.


I understand it affects cold start cranking but in turn I figured that would ALSO affect wear?
 
Is there an option to have a block heater or a heated garage? It seems like regardless of oil used, this would help curtail any startup wear concerns at those low temps.
 
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
I understand it affects cold start cranking but in turn I figured that would ALSO affect wear?

Oil that is too thin will cause excess wear, at cool or cold temperatures all oil is thick.
 
Originally Posted by Reddy45
Is there an option to have a block heater or a heated garage? It seems like regardless of oil used, this would help curtail any startup wear concerns at those low temps.


Doesn't a block heater mostly just warms up the coolant? A oil pan heater would I agree help with wear. But again, in real life conditions do I really need that? I don't think so. I'm not keeping this motor for 20 years.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
I understand it affects cold start cranking but in turn I figured that would ALSO affect wear?

Oil that is too thin will cause excess wear, at cool or cold temperatures all oil is thick.


Okok. The way I was seeing it is a 0W oil will be able to get to the crucial engine parts faster than a 5W for example. But that seems like a myth?
 
It is about temperature. Both are of similar pumpability until the temperature gets extremely cold, in this case below -30F or so.
 
Alright then I'll give the Pennzoil a try when I run out. Yellow bottle is gonna be more interesting than a black one
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh
Okok. The way I was seeing it is a 0W oil will be able to get to the crucial engine parts faster than a 5W for example. But that seems like a myth?


Yup...........Myth.

If it pumps, you're good.
 
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For winter especially, or OK for year around according to BMW, is the LL-01FE BMW (or Mini brand) dealership oil. They are saying now you can use the "FE" version of LL-01, LL-01FE specifically, in 0w-30 TwinPower Turbo oil or the black bottle Mini oil, in your N54 engine. Thats what I'd do in the winter since its very suitable for cold temperature flow and lower wear when its super cold outside. Above -18 C, 5w40 is fine though.
 
Originally Posted by paoester
For winter especially, or OK for year around according to BMW, is the LL-01FE BMW (or Mini brand) dealership oil. They are saying now you can use the "FE" version of LL-01, LL-01FE specifically, in 0w-30 TwinPower Turbo oil or the black bottle Mini oil, in your N54 engine. Thats what I'd do in the winter since its very suitable for cold temperature flow and lower wear when its super cold outside. Above -18 C, 5w40 is fine though.


Yeah I don't think I'd run a 30 oil in the N54. 5w-40 is going to be fine for winter and better IMO when operating temp. I don't care for fuel efficiency to the point of paying for overpriced oil as well. BMW oil at my dealer is 16$ per litre. I need 6.5L.
 
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Another suggestion is to deviate from the need for a Longlife-01 oil altogether. An oil with Porsche A40 or Mercedes-Benz 229.5 approval must pass similarly stringent tests as LL-01. Castrol 0W-40 at Walmart has both approvals and is around $22.50 for five quarts. Mobil 1 0W-40 with the same approvals is still eligible for rebate I believe.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Another suggestion is to deviate from the need for a Longlife-01 oil altogether. An oil with Porsche A40 or Mercedes-Benz 229.5 approval must pass similarly stringent tests as LL-01. Castrol 0W-40 at Walmart has both approvals and is around $22.50 for five quarts. Mobil 1 0W-40 with the same approvals is still eligible for rebate I believe.


That Castrol 0W-40 is what I'm saying is being phased out of the LL01, so I agree it's probably the same oil anyways and just did not pay for the cert. I know LL01 probably doesn't mean anything if other higher specs meet it but I rather not. And Castrol and Pennzoil are the same prices when they are on sale so I might as well get the Pennzoil 5W-40.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
The winter rating affects cold-start capability (cranking and flow to the oil pump pickup tube) and possibly fuel consumption. It is not about wear. Oil-related wear occurs when the MOFT is below a minimum requirement and this is not a concern at any temperature below operating.

An oil with a 5W winter rating is just as pumpable as one with a 0W rating at -22F.


But the 0W will let the engine spin faster and start easier when starting, no?
 
There will be difference between a 0W-40 and a 5W-40 at very cold temperatures, below -30F or -35F. SAE J300 addresses both cranking and pumpability.
 
N52 owner here, recently put some Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 (the Pennzoil euro is just a re-bottle of Helix Ultra) in the car due to non technical reasons.

Had been using U.S. market Belgium made Edge 0w40 and Mobil 1 0w40 (FS, non-LL01) before.

I saw better fuel economy with no other noticeable changes, it hasn't been running in the car long enough but seems it will do better than Mobil 1 on oil consumption (i do have worn valve stem seals though).

I might end up switching to Helix Ultra for a completely different reason than you lol but so far I am feeling good with Shell. (Walmart literally imports its own U.S. engine oils stock and sell them in my region, i wonder why you can't get Edge anymore albeit you are in Canada? I am buying the Shell oil from a different supplier that imports from EU and it's the cheapest compared to both Edge and M1 from Walmart)
 
Originally Posted by MichaelCT
N52 owner here, recently put some Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 (the Pennzoil euro is just a re-bottle of Helix Ultra) in the car due to non technical reasons.

Had been using U.S. market Belgium made Edge 0w40 and Mobil 1 0w40 (FS, non-LL01) before.

I saw better fuel economy with no other noticeable changes, it hasn't been running in the car long enough but seems it will do better than Mobil 1 on oil consumption (i do have worn valve stem seals though).

I might end up switching to Helix Ultra for a completely different reason than you lol but so far I am feeling good with Shell. (Walmart literally imports its own U.S. engine oils stock and sell them in my region, i wonder why you can't get Edge anymore albeit you are in Canada? I am buying the Shell oil from a different supplier that imports from EU and it's the cheapest compared to both Edge and M1 from Walmart)


I can still purchases the same Edge oil but it's doesn't have the LL01 marking. At least that's what I saw on the bottle. I don't remember if there is also the "European formula" badge at front/ The otehr castrol LL01 product that is there I saw 0W-30 LL01 but they are only 1 litre bottles.
 
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwh


TLDR: In real life conditions, how much cold start/running wear protection am I loosing by going from a 0W-40 oil to 5W-40 in temperatures around -25c (13f).



Not much ...

A 5w oil does not exceed maximum viscosity limits at a very cold -30*c and -35*c.

An 0w oil does not exceed maximum viscosity limits at a very, very cold -35*c and -40*c.

Even a 10w oil meets these same standards at - 25*c and - 30*c.

[Linked Image]
 
PP Euro 5w40 MRV viscosity is 19 500 cP at - 35*c .

M1 FS 0w40 MRV viscosity is 21 600 cP at - 40*c .

Both easily meet the 60 000 cP MAXIMUM viscosity limit from the arguably more important PUMPING test.


For comparison purposes, M1 AFE 0w20 is a much less thick 9200 cP at - 40*c , much less thick than the 40 grades. Note: I am not saying THINNER, because at these temperatures, all the oils are much, much thicker than at operating temps.
 
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