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M1 5W20 EP Honda Civic R18Z1 9137k OCI #5236851 10/11/19 09:47 AM
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Danr42 Offline OP
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Honda Civic 2014
r18z1 Engine 3.7 qt sump w/out filter change (does not have direct fuel injection)
Mobil 1 5w20 EP
Honda OEM oil filter (manufactured by Honeywell?)


I choose 5w20 because according to mobile the 0w20 EP has 650ppm phos and 750ppm zinc and the 5w20 EP has 800ppm phos and 900ppm zinc.
The 0w20 EP HM has 800ppm phos and 900ppm zinc and hope to use it this winter.
1oz (two tbsp) of Lucas TB zinc plus 10063 was added to the oil, according to Lucas this has 43000ppm zinc. From my calculations this should bring the zinc up to 1250ppm.

With aluminum and iron at 10ppm significantly lower then the low wear threshold of 2ppm per 1000mi.
Insolubles <.2% good oil filtration. I will stay with Honda filters.
The WIX air filter looks to be doing a good job with 10ppm silicon. I've seen as high as 7ppm in 5w20 Mobil VOA. I think I'll try a denso sometime they make the OEM.


Not sure where the sodium came from. Don't see it in Mobil VOA. Possibly from the Lucas. Coolant level has not changed visually.
I notice that my visc is down to 6.9 and that my flash point is low. I cant think that one oz of Lucas with a flash point of 292F and a visc of 15 @ 100C has noticeable effects on these.
I have seen many posts criticizing how Blackstone reports fuel dilution percentage, Is it possible that it is greater then reported?
Should I have run this oil a few thousand more miles? I realize that it could have lasted 15000 mi however I would like to have the visc stay in spec.
For the next reports ill use a WIX analysis so that TBN is included.[Linked Image]

Last edited by Danr42; 10/11/19 09:48 AM.
Re: M1 5W20 EP Honda Civic R18Z1 9137k OCI [Re: Danr42] #5236865 10/11/19 10:08 AM
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Brian553 Offline
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[Linked Image]

I'm not arguing the estimate for your ppm value, I just don't understand why you aren't seeing 1150 to 1200 ppm zinc in the UOA???

I don't understand why the viscosity is at 6.9cst
I think the carrier for the zddp is just some group 1, so it shouldn't contribute to shearing losses.
I'm scratching my head on this one. eek All I can think is that Mobil planned on it shearing down like this.


Delvac 1300........Valvoline Maxlife FS ATF........Liquid Wrench
Mobil 1 HM..........Valvoline Asian AF..................Berryman's B12



Re: M1 5W20 EP Honda Civic R18Z1 9137k OCI [Re: Brian553] #5236878 10/11/19 10:21 AM
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kschachn Offline
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I would put no faith in the notion that the VII (or the "oil") mechanically sheared. Blackstone has never measured fuel dilution properly, plus they have a history of not being able to measure viscosity.

There is precious little evidence that any PCMO shears in normal use except in shared sumps.


1994 BMW 530i, 250K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 425K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: M1 5W20 EP Honda Civic R18Z1 9137k OCI [Re: Danr42] #5236910 10/11/19 10:45 AM
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webfors Offline
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Originally Posted by Danr42

I have seen many posts criticizing how Blackstone reports fuel dilution percentage, Is it possible that it is greater then reported?


Non-DI with significant fuel dilution is rare, unless a sample is pulled in the winter after a few short runs.

What's the VOA viscosity of this oil?


17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, Champion COS10590
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Mopar MO-349
18 DL1000XT, Valvoline Dino 20w50, Suzuki OEM OF
Small engines; RT5 10w30
Re: M1 5W20 EP Honda Civic R18Z1 9137k OCI [Re: Brian553] #5237040 10/11/19 01:00 PM
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Danr42 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Brian553
[Linked Image]

I'm not arguing the estimate for your ppm value, I just don't understand why you aren't seeing 1150 to 1200 ppm zinc in the UOA???

I don't understand why the viscosity is at 6.9cst
I think the carrier for the zddp is just some group 1, so it shouldn't contribute to shearing losses.
I'm scratching my head on this one. eek All I can think is that Mobil planned on it shearing down like this.


In your calculations is the "160" oz of oil?
From the small bit I know about tribology some of the zinc/phos is used up during engine operations it forms a sacrificial film between moving parts.
From some calculations I've done in the past it looks like about 12%. Here's a real example in 5w30 Mobil claims 900ppm zinc VOA shows 887ppm and UOA shows 784ppm.

Originally Posted by webfors
Originally Posted by Danr42

I have seen many posts criticizing how Blackstone reports fuel dilution percentage, Is it possible that it is greater then reported?


Non-DI with significant fuel dilution is rare, unless a sample is pulled in the winter after a few short runs.

What's the VOA viscosity of this oil?


This sample has some short trips but no winter driving.
VOA Visc appears to be 8.7

Last edited by Danr42; 10/11/19 01:09 PM.
Re: M1 5W20 EP Honda Civic R18Z1 9137k OCI [Re: Danr42] #5237067 10/11/19 01:25 PM
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webfors Offline
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Originally Posted by webfors
Originally Posted by Danr42

I have seen many posts criticizing how Blackstone reports fuel dilution percentage, Is it possible that it is greater then reported?


Non-DI with significant fuel dilution is rare, unless a sample is pulled in the winter after a few short runs.

What's the VOA viscosity of this oil?

Originally Posted by Danr42

This sample has some short trips but no winter driving.
VOA Visc appears to be 8.7


Significant shearing then, over 25%... maybe have BS rerun.


17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, Champion COS10590
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Mopar MO-349
18 DL1000XT, Valvoline Dino 20w50, Suzuki OEM OF
Small engines; RT5 10w30
Re: M1 5W20 EP Honda Civic R18Z1 9137k OCI [Re: webfors] #5237077 10/11/19 01:33 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by webfors
Significant shearing then, over 25%... maybe have BS rerun.

He could, but then again BS is likely the problem.

No way there was that much mechanical shearing in an automobile engine.


1994 BMW 530i, 250K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 425K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: M1 5W20 EP Honda Civic R18Z1 9137k OCI [Re: Danr42] #5240309 10/15/19 02:01 PM
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Danr42 Offline OP
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