Why does Toyota recommend 0W-20?

[NH73]

Originally Posted by billt460
Mine say's pretty much the same. I'm having trouble finding 0W-16 both here, and when I was in Phoenix. So I used 0W-20. You're in Wisconsin and Winter is on it's way. So I'm guessing you will have an easier time finding it than I have. As far as why they're recommending it? There will be around 6 pages of posts coming along shortly, giving you the answer to that. Just make the popcorn and wait.

Walmart has it online at least.

 

[wiswind]

I use 0W-20 in my 2016 Toyota because that is what is called for by Toyota.
If I had a stash of 5W-20, I would not hesitate to use it.
Do you go the full 10K miles between oil changes?
I'm in Wisconsin also......so, if I were worried even a little....I would use 5W-20 in summer and 0W-20 in winter.
I want to get my oil changed every 5K in winter as I don't drive that far to and from work.
In summer......I don't have any issue with the 10K mile time, with my 0W-20 oil. (Remember, I am buying oil, not working from a stash).

 

[PandaBear]

To force people to use only synthetic or near synthetic. There are a lot of dino or near dino 5w20 out there, not 0w20, pretty much everyone makes decent quality 0w20 for much longer drain interval than dino 5w20.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by PandaBear
To force people to use only synthetic or near synthetic. There are a lot of dino or near dino 5w20 out there, not 0w20, pretty much everyone makes decent quality 0w20 for much longer drain interval than dino 5w20.


Unless they have changed a couple 0w20 examples
M1 AFE at 30% PAO whereas M1 EP has >/= 60-70% plus some other stocks from the sultan of base stocks

I'm still going to call it good 6k-7k for concern of DI fuel dilution

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by PimTac

This has been a million dollar question here and may not ever be answered fully. Acceptable wear depends on so many variables in the real world. In a lab setting it might be clearer due to controls. If a engine ran 300,000 miles on 5w30 and 280,000 miles on 0w20, that might be considered acceptable. Who would know?

My opinion is that this is closer to the truth than the thought that the manufacturer only worries about the warranty period. If engines were wearing out long before 100k we would know it. That is not the case.

Sure there might not be a dearth of failures at 100k but how many of those engines continue to use 0w20 100k miles later? Why not run a slightly thicker lube to begin with?

I drive Fords not Toyoto's, but I have put some 502K(my last three cars) on 20 wt M1 oils and 90% of that is with 0-20. Great results.

Wow...¨, you must be driving cross country once a month cuzz that's a lot of miles annually, considering m1 0w20 wasn't widely available until 2006.

 

[MetalSlug]

Last couple day suddenly Texas getting little cold . I go to work at 4am and when I start my Honda it got that 2 second rattle with 5w30 Mobil 1 hm . It did again the next morning . So change out to Mobil 1 0w20 like the oil cap day and next 2 morning . No more start up rattle . I stick to what ever the oil cap say from now on any cars .

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by MetalSlug
Last couple day suddenly Texas getting little cold . I go to work at 4am and when I start my Honda it got that 2 second rattle with 5w30 Mobil 1 hm . It did again the next morning . So change out to Mobil 1 0w20 like the oil cap day and next 2 morning . No more start up rattle . I stick to what ever the oil cap say from now on any cars .

Your example has nothing to do with the winter rating.

 

[mrdctaylor]

I like seeing these posts, because it confirms what I plan to do anyway: switch from 0W20 to 5W30 on my wife's 2012 Highlander. I've used 0W20 since new every 7500-10K miles or so. However, my Tacoma and my son's Escape both use 5W30 and I'd prefer to just stock up on one oil weight. I have over 100K miles on the Highlander and one more OCI's worth of 0W20 on hand and plan to go to 5W30 from then on. I only use synthetic and like to buy it when I can get it on clearance and/or with double rebates. Don't ask me how many quarts of oil I have in my garage.

 

[aquariuscsm]

My Accord was totally and completely silent with dino 10W30 on those cool morning startups. Much better than the synthetic. The only time I ever had that start up rattle was with the Wix filter. From reading online it seems like lots of people had that startup rattle with the same Wix filter.

 

[MetalSlug]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
My Accord was totally and completely silent with dino 10W30 on those cool morning startups. Much better than the synthetic. The only time I ever had that start up rattle was with the Wix filter. From reading online it seems like lots of people had that startup rattle with the same Wix filter.



What years is your Accord ?

 

[Railrust]

I just think being the largest manufacturer in the world - with a large portion of cars sold in the US - it makes sense for Toyota to spec 0w20...keeps their fuel mileage/cafe ratings attainable, and seeing as how half the country deals with some sort or winter driving scenario...keeps those parts of the county "safe". And the 10,000 mile suggests intervaks cut down on oil usuage (also making those Cafe regulation folks happy). I don't think it's for what's best for your engine, but then again I don't think you're going to be exactly destroying your engine by using it either.

I'd use the 0w20 until you're out of your power train warranty...not sure when that is for Toyota, but let's say 60,000 miles...at that point your engine has changed a bit and going up to a heavier weight and shorter interval may be a good practice anyway. Maybe bump it up to a nice full Synthetic 5w30 and cut the interval down to 6,000 miles...bet that would be a nice little alternative to the 10,000 mile 0w20 changes.

I will say this...talked to some guys from Toyota dealers...they're mixed about it...some don't agree with the longer drains...some don't mind them - say the oil looks fine coming out and they haven't seen any issues with it - but it's definitely not something I'd do if I was planning on keeping a car for 300,000 miles (thing is, they know most won't).

 

[benhen77]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by MetalSlug
Last couple day suddenly Texas getting little cold . I go to work at 4am and when I start my Honda it got that 2 second rattle with 5w30 Mobil 1 hm . It did again the next morning . So change out to Mobil 1 0w20 like the oil cap day and next 2 morning . No more start up rattle . I stick to what ever the oil cap say from now on any cars .

Your example has nothing to do with the winter rating.

+1. Correlation does not indicate causation. Believe me, it'll rattle no matter what grade goes in, just like mine.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by MetalSlug
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
My Accord was totally and completely silent with dino 10W30 on those cool morning startups. Much better than the synthetic. The only time I ever had that start up rattle was with the Wix filter. From reading online it seems like lots of people had that startup rattle with the same Wix filter.



What years is your Accord ?


It's a 2012 2.4 EX-L.

 

[ndfergy]

I have no qualms using 5w20 in the wife's car instead of 0w20 for a couple of reasons:

1. Mobil Super 1000 5w20 is a mix of group II, II+, and III+(GTL). This makes it a synthetic mix although not marketed as such. It may very well excede 120 VI to classify it as synthetic but not done at the descretion of Mobil on a good, better, best marketing decision.

2. Winter interruptus. The wife and I drive the Camry roughly 25,000 km per year. Of that our winters would classify as severe duty. So the choice is 2 oil changes at $115 ea. w/0w20 or 3 oil changes at $65 ea. w/5w20.

Pretty obvious to us what the best choice is.

 

[geeman789]

The CAFE fuel economy test city cycle uses a cold start. There is a supplemental test that uses a winter cold start, measuring fuel economy from a 20*F ( -7*c ) starting temperature.

0w20 is used to help improve fuel economy in these tests, when the oil has not yet reached operating temperature so is thicker than optimal. Like Mobil 1 advertises with their AFE line of oils, there is a fuel economy benefit to using an 0w oil during the warm-up phase of engine operation. The benefit is small.

Mobil 1 states ...

Helps to improve fuel economy based on 0.2-2.3% potential fuel economy improvement obtained by switching from higher viscosity oils to a 0W-30 grade. Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions and your current engine oil viscosity.


The average driver won't notice ... but to a car maker, even a small improvement in fuel economy can be worth millions.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by geeman789
The CAFE fuel economy test city cycle uses a cold start. There is a supplemental test that uses a winter cold start, measuring fuel economy from a 20*F ( -7*c ) starting temperature.

0w20 is used to help improve fuel economy in these tests, when the oil has not yet reached operating temperature so is thicker than optimal. Like Mobil 1 advertises with their AFE line of oils, there is a fuel economy benefit to using an 0w oil during the warm-up phase of engine operation. The benefit is small.

Mobil 1 states ...

Helps to improve fuel economy based on 0.2-2.3% potential fuel economy improvement obtained by switching from higher viscosity oils to a 0W-30 grade. Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions and your current engine oil viscosity.


The average driver won't notice ... but to a car maker, even a small improvement in fuel economy can be worth millions.


No the majority of truthful drivers won't notice!

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by ndfergy
I have no qualms using 5w20 in the wife's car instead of 0w20 for a couple of reasons:

1. Mobil Super 1000 5w20 is a mix of group II, II+, and III+(GTL). This makes it a synthetic mix although not marketed as such. It may very well excede 120 VI to classify it as synthetic but not done at the descretion of Mobil on a good, better, best marketing decision.

2. Winter interruptus. The wife and I drive the Camry roughly 25,000 km per year. Of that our winters would classify as severe duty. So the choice is 2 oil changes at $115 ea. w/0w20 or 3 oil changes at $65 ea. w/5w20.

Pretty obvious to us what the best choice is.

I'm only aware of Shell, Sasol and Chevron (using Sasol tech) having GTL plants and Chevron's plant in Nigeria mfgs GTL diesel, leaving Shell and Sasol as the only two producers of GTL base oil. I believe XOM's grp3 is mineral oil based, VISOM.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by ndfergy
I have no qualms using 5w20 in the wife's car instead of 0w20 for a couple of reasons:

1. Mobil Super 1000 5w20 is a mix of group II, II+, and III+(GTL). This makes it a synthetic mix although not marketed as such. It may very well excede 120 VI to classify it as synthetic but not done at the descretion of Mobil on a good, better, best marketing decision.

2. Winter interruptus. The wife and I drive the Camry roughly 25,000 km per year. Of that our winters would classify as severe duty. So the choice is 2 oil changes at $115 ea. w/0w20 or 3 oil changes at $65 ea. w/5w20.

Pretty obvious to us what the best choice is.

I'm only aware of Shell, Sasol and Chevron (using Sasol tech) having GTL plants and Chevron's plant in Nigeria mfgs GTL diesel, leaving Shell and Sasol as the only two producers of GTL base oil. I believe XOM's grp3 is mineral oil based, VISOM.




The Distillates heavy C18-50 refers to a Fischer Tropsch process. That is GTL.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by ndfergy
I have no qualms using 5w20 in the wife's car instead of 0w20 for a couple of reasons:

1. Mobil Super 1000 5w20 is a mix of group II, II+, and III+(GTL). This makes it a synthetic mix although not marketed as such. It may very well excede 120 VI to classify it as synthetic but not done at the descretion of Mobil on a good, better, best marketing decision.

2. Winter interruptus. The wife and I drive the Camry roughly 25,000 km per year. Of that our winters would classify as severe duty. So the choice is 2 oil changes at $115 ea. w/0w20 or 3 oil changes at $65 ea. w/5w20.

Pretty obvious to us what the best choice is.

I'm only aware of Shell, Sasol and Chevron (using Sasol tech) having GTL plants and Chevron's plant in Nigeria mfgs GTL diesel, leaving Shell and Sasol as the only two producers of GTL base oil. I believe XOM's grp3 is mineral oil based, VISOM.




The Distillates heavy C18-50 refers to a Fischer Tropsch process. That is GTL.

I didn't catch that. So are they sourcing it from Shell or Sasol?..I wasn't aware that XOM went online with a production level GTL plant. Where is it?.. Last i knew they abandoned that project several years ago.

 

[PimTac]

That I don't know.