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Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. #5237326 10/11/19 06:32 PM
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newspeed Offline OP
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I am in the process of changing the coolant pipes under the intake manifold of a BMW M54 engine. I have successfully cleaned out the broken plastic that was left behind but was still left with melted on oring material inside the bores. I cleaned out all the remaining material using a scotchbrite wheel on a dremel.

Now that everything is clean it's obvious that the area where the oring seats has become pitted from corrosion.

I've posted this on a BMW forum and it seems many recommend coating the oring with RTV to ensure a seal. I was always taught that putting any type of sealant on an Oring is wrong.

Will a new oring seal against the pitting? I really would like to avoid using any RTV if possible.

What is the best solution to ensure a leak free seal?

thumbnail_image1.jpgthumbnail_image2.jpgthumbnail_image3.jpg
Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237338 10/11/19 07:04 PM
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DuckRyder Offline
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I’m thinking more along the lines of:

  • Repair bore with cold welding compound or epoxy.
  • Repair bore by boring and sleeving (assuming parts are removable) or possibly welding (TIG?)
  • Something more along the lines of #2 or even PST.


I don’t really think RTV would work that great...

How tight is the fit?


Last edited by DuckRyder; 10/11/19 07:07 PM.

Robert
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Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: DuckRyder] #5237346 10/11/19 07:14 PM
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newspeed Offline OP
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The bores are part of the cylinder head and are not removable. They are in a fairly tight area and there is no room to get a tig torch in there or any way to repair the bore with any accuracy. In order to clean them out I had to use a right angle attachment on a dremel.

Apparently this is a fairly common issue on BMW's. One person said the orings will seal fine dry even with the pitting. Others claim to have coated the orings with rtv and have had no problems for several years afterwards.

Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237351 10/11/19 07:17 PM
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Trav Offline
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There are quite a few ways to repair this sort of damage, I have done a few on old irreplaceable castings. The easiest way is to sleeve it with a stainless steel sleeve if you can find one the correct size, there are many to choose from. Measurements must be exact but chances are you can find one. these are normally used on shafts for seals but they will work on things like this also. use a sealer when installing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=2ahUKEwiC_bqmtpXlAhURUt8KHbPEC6oQFjACegQIBhAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skf.com%2Fbinary%2F21-128020%2F11337_2-EN-SKF-Speedi-Sleeve.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2EHLoD0mXN8QgrtJtSfebg

The next way is to use an aluminum filler, let it site for a while till it thickens slightly then use your finger (use a nitrile glove) and wipe it around the inside of the bore without too much build up, it should just fill the damage, leave it 24 hrs then carefully hand sand it with 220 the 400 grit wet and dry.
Coat the O ring with Hylomar M and install.

https://www.amazon.com/Hy-Poxy-H-45...mp;psc=1&refRID=NBMEKJCXE41WV70W8ETH

The other way is just to fill the damage with Hylomar, coat the ring with it and install. it will work and does a much better job than any rtv.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hylomar-M-2-7-Oz-Tube-61324/182550715886?epid=21017022178&hash=item2a80deddee:g:VE0AAOSwjBRdcyP0


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237353 10/11/19 07:22 PM
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newspeed Offline OP
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The pipes do fit tight and there are 2 orings on each end of the pipe that seal in the bore.

Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: Trav] #5237357 10/11/19 07:29 PM
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I am little concerned with the aluminum filler's long term durability. Will it withstand the heat and exposure to coolant without breaking down?

Thank you for the hylomar suggestion. I will look into it.

Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237359 10/11/19 07:32 PM
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perfect_oil Offline
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The GM 3800 V6 has very similar coolant bores in the lower intake manifold, accessory drive belt tensioner, and water pump. To seal against the pitting in the aluminum bores, we coat the bores and the o-rings with Dow Corning 111 silicone grease. It's a high viscosity grease with excellent adhesive properties that is unaffected by hot water or coolant.

Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237360 10/11/19 07:33 PM
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Chris142 Offline
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Oil or grease.


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Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237366 10/11/19 07:44 PM
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andyd Offline
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I'm a broken record. The needle is stuck on " permatex aviation forma- gasket. It is available everywhere.


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Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237471 10/11/19 09:55 PM
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Trav Offline
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Originally Posted by newspeed
I am little concerned with the aluminum filler's long term durability. Will it withstand the heat and exposure to coolant without breaking down?

Thank you for the hylomar suggestion. I will look into it.



The stuff I linked to has a temp up to 250f and has very good resistance to water and chemicals like oil and grease.

http://www.hypoxy.com/images/Hy-Poxy%20TDS%20H-45%20&%20H-450%20Alumbond%20.pdf

I used a product called Aluma lead which is not made anymore but I repaired a crack in a primary cover on a BSA Lightning and you couldn't tell it had been repaired, it didn't weep or look out of place when polished.
If nothing else it will stop further corrosion. BTW Hylomar works fantastic on O rings. I use it to seal leaky pan O rings on some Euro oil pan level sensors instead of dropping the pan or pulling the engine to do it.

Its a bit of tricky repair getting it in right after where the ring sits but doable and it holds the life of the engine. Have no reservations using on the rings.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: andyd] #5237472 10/11/19 09:55 PM
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clinebarger Offline
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Originally Posted by andyd
I'm a broken record. The needle is stuck on " permatex aviation forma- gasket. It is available everywhere.


Which is similar to Hylomar M, Hylomar has/had builder approvals.....IIRC from Jaguar & Rolls Royce.


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Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237555 10/12/19 04:40 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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I'd use the Hylomar M as already mentioned.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: perfect_oil] #5237563 10/12/19 05:37 AM
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Lubener Offline
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Originally Posted by perfect_oil
The GM 3800 V6 has very similar coolant bores in the lower intake manifold, accessory drive belt tensioner, and water pump. To seal against the pitting in the aluminum bores, we coat the bores and the o-rings with Dow Corning 111 silicone grease. It's a high viscosity grease with excellent adhesive properties that is unaffected by hot water or coolant.

Done it and works well.


The "thinking" man's friend.
Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: newspeed] #5237637 10/12/19 08:30 AM
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edwardh1 Offline
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do Toyotas have these issues, if not what do they do to avoid the problem- is it a design issue?


These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
Re: Coat Oring with RTV? Pittiing in bore where oring seals. [Re: edwardh1] #5237728 10/12/19 10:49 AM
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Trav Offline
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It is one of a few things either lack of cooling system maintenance, wrong coolant or material failure due to galvanic corrosion or a combination of any of them. Some grades of aluminum corrodes more readily than others, anodizing parts can help address corrosion issues but not completely eliminate it.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
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