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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5236652 10/11/19 06:43 AM
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supton Offline
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Hmm. It's just shy of 12 miles for me to get to the grocery store. Not a vehicle for me!

EV's are interesting but for me, they have to have good range. This one, with 25 miles of range, works for some people, but likely is not going to be much good in perhaps all of my state.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 198k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 156k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 219k, his
Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: supton] #5236988 10/11/19 12:05 PM
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JHZR2 Offline
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Originally Posted by supton
Hmm. It's just shy of 12 miles for me to get to the grocery store. Not a vehicle for me!

EV's are interesting but for me, they have to have good range. This one, with 25 miles of range, works for some people, but likely is not going to be much good in perhaps all of my state.


You realize it is a hybrid, right? With a fuel tank, a gas engine, and something like 33mpg combined, maybe more?

While going some distance on battery only is neat, it’s not the only way, and one is still doing pretty good on gas.

I believe the metric of design was 800Wh/mile, which may include derating (using less than actual capacity to keep the chemistry in a desirable range). So that would imply that it has around 20kWh of energy. I think that’s high, btw.

Assuming it takes 20kWh, that’s what? $3 of electric? To do 25 miles? 12c/mile?

But you can do like 33mpg, which at $3/gal is like 9.9c/mile?

So why do we care if we can’t make the trip all electric? Use it in nice conditions when you can really save due to low/no parasitics, and use the engine in HEV mode to get a real mpg advantage the rest of the time. Seems like a win win.




Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: JHZR2] #5237022 10/11/19 12:42 PM
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atikovi Offline
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Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by supton
Hmm. It's just shy of 12 miles for me to get to the grocery store. Not a vehicle for me!

EV's are interesting but for me, they have to have good range. This one, with 25 miles of range, works for some people, but likely is not going to be much good in perhaps all of my state.


You realize it is a hybrid, right? With a fuel tank, a gas engine, and something like 33mpg combined, maybe more?

While going some distance on battery only is neat, it’s not the only way, and one is still doing pretty good on gas.

I believe the metric of design was 800Wh/mile, which may include derating (using less than actual capacity to keep the chemistry in a desirable range). So that would imply that it has around 20kWh of energy. I think that’s high, btw.

Assuming it takes 20kWh, that’s what? $3 of electric? To do 25 miles? 12c/mile?

But you can do like 33mpg, which at $3/gal is like 9.9c/mile?

So why do we care if we can’t make the trip all electric? Use it in nice conditions when you can really save due to low/no parasitics, and use the engine in HEV mode to get a real mpg advantage the rest of the time. Seems like a win win.





The issue is the range compared to the Volt plug-in hybrid for example which is over 40 miles. Plugging in every 12 miles would get old pretty quick.

Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: atikovi] #5237104 10/11/19 01:56 PM
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The Critic Offline OP
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Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by supton
Hmm. It's just shy of 12 miles for me to get to the grocery store. Not a vehicle for me!

EV's are interesting but for me, they have to have good range. This one, with 25 miles of range, works for some people, but likely is not going to be much good in perhaps all of my state.


You realize it is a hybrid, right? With a fuel tank, a gas engine, and something like 33mpg combined, maybe more?

While going some distance on battery only is neat, it’s not the only way, and one is still doing pretty good on gas.

I believe the metric of design was 800Wh/mile, which may include derating (using less than actual capacity to keep the chemistry in a desirable range). So that would imply that it has around 20kWh of energy. I think that’s high, btw.

Assuming it takes 20kWh, that’s what? $3 of electric? To do 25 miles? 12c/mile?

But you can do like 33mpg, which at $3/gal is like 9.9c/mile?

So why do we care if we can’t make the trip all electric? Use it in nice conditions when you can really save due to low/no parasitics, and use the engine in HEV mode to get a real mpg advantage the rest of the time. Seems like a win win.





The issue is the range compared to the Volt plug-in hybrid for example which is over 40 miles. Plugging in every 12 miles would get old pretty quick.

The problem with the Volt is that it will take 12 hrs (or more) to charge via 120v. Few of us are home for more than 12 hours at a time on the weekdays. The charge time of the current Toyota plug-in hybrids is 5.5-6 hr, which is more realistic. But because of that, the range is shorter. The RAV4 hybrid gets 40mpg as it currently stands so even when you run out of pure EV range, the fuel economy is still terrific.


2011 Toyota Prius 1.8L - 200K - Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10W-30
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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5237116 10/11/19 02:08 PM
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dareo Offline
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25 miles would work for my situation, but it seems short for the majority of buyers. Lets not forget range degradation over time.

I could do all EV miles in this. Or i could just do my 4 mile trips in literally anything else and not really feel the pinch of fuel.

It should be sold as 30 miles and possibly a 60 mile option.


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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5237274 10/11/19 04:37 PM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Beyond getting on the commuter lane, I am not sure what 25 miles buys you, especially if it comes at a stiff premium over the hybrid.
The hybrid is the better part of 40 large already; or more.
But people will buy 'em and love 'em.

I would be curious how the Prius plug in does vs. the Prius hybrid, which CA has loved for a long time.
All good.

Last edited by JeffKeryk; 10/11/19 04:37 PM.

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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5237396 10/11/19 07:24 PM
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atikovi Offline
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I'd rather have a Fiat 500e. LOL

Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5237486 10/11/19 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by The Critic
The problem with the Volt is that it will take 12 hrs (or more) to charge via 120v. Few of us are home for more than 12 hours at a time on the weekdays. The charge time of the current Toyota plug-in hybrids is 5.5-6 hr, which is more realistic. But because of that, the range is shorter. The RAV4 hybrid gets 40mpg as it currently stands so even when you run out of pure EV range, the fuel economy is still terrific.


The 1st gen Volt doesn't take over 12 hours to charge from empty, on the 12 amp setting it takes around 10.5 hours from empty. Almost every household 120v plug can handle 12A, as long as it's on it's own circuit, e.g. in the garage. The 8 amp setting is more for on-the-go charging when you don't know the capacity of the outlet.

Also, who among us isn't at home at least 10 hours straight? Sure... there's the 3rd shift worker, the service industry worker, etc. However, I'd say most people are home that long, at least most days. Obviously not all, but I'd be willing to bet 70-75% of the target market, maybe more.

Last edited by 14Accent; 10/11/19 09:18 PM.

2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5237703 10/12/19 09:11 AM
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Once again, the ICE RAV4 isn't/wasn't for everyone and this version won't be either. And the 25 mile EV range was only a "what if" from the OP but it's being treated as gospel from Toyota. Hate on.


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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5237734 10/12/19 09:54 AM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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In Silicon Valley, many companies offer charge at work for free or a subsidized rate.
I believe this is a growing trend. It sure is around here.

25 miles can be 50 miles, etc.
Some people tell me they never charge at home.
Of course their cars have more range.

Everyone's situation is a little different.
All good.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: JeffKeryk] #5237746 10/12/19 10:01 AM
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atikovi Offline
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
In Silicon Valley, many companies offer charge at work for free or a subsidized rate.
I believe this is a growing trend. It sure is around here.


HAHA, People making six figure salaries get all giddy about getting a 50 cent a day perk.

Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: atikovi] #5237950 10/12/19 03:17 PM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
In Silicon Valley, many companies offer charge at work for free or a subsidized rate.
I believe this is a growing trend. It sure is around here.


HAHA, People making six figure salaries get all giddy about getting a 50 cent a day perk.

Michael it's the principal...
Right?


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5238080 10/12/19 07:00 PM
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atikovi Offline
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I'm not Michael.

Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: The Critic] #5238132 10/12/19 08:22 PM
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Being as this is a hybrid, where is the 25 mile range coming from?


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Re: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid [Re: atikovi] #5238217 10/12/19 11:57 PM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Originally Posted by atikovi
I'm not Michael.

Sorry; I was posting using my cell.
And it is not 50 cents.

But the value is great; that much is for sure.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
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