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Do we really need paper media filters? #5235356 10/09/19 10:19 PM
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onespiritbrain Offline OP
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***This would not pertain to vehicles with engines that have extremely tight bearing clearances***

Do we really need highly restricted paper media oil filters when the oil is changed at 3k miles? I’m thinking a felt style media that will catch 50 micron particles well but pass the smaller stuff should be fine.

The engines own wear particles should be the only contaminates in the oil and by nature would be very small anyway.

What am I missing here? Where are these large contaminates coming from?

Obviously I don’t think robust oil filters are unnecessary for everyone. Those who can’t change their own oil (not hating I’m too stupid to change my own sometimes) and those who live in arid/sandy places come to mind.

Wouldn’t gas mileage benefit from the reduced engine strain.

Last edited by onespiritbrain; 10/09/19 10:20 PM.
Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235373 10/09/19 10:44 PM
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Felt releases its own particles.....kind of like Fram used to release cardboard from the glued end pieces.....

Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235380 10/09/19 10:52 PM
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clinebarger Online Content
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Bearing inserts are designed to embed contaminates. It's the needle bearings & rollers found in so many valvetrains today along VVT actuator solenoids that need clean oil.

Engine's didn't used to have full-flow oil filters & bypass filters were a option. I think Chrysler was the first of the big 3 to install full-flow filters.

Engine are now using Electronic Flow-Control solenoids on oil pumps to reduce parasitic loss from driving the oil pump to mechanical relieve during cold starts & high RPM.
The GM Ecotech3 engines are what I'm most familiar with using this set-up, They use variable displacement pump similar to the pump in a Automatic Transmission. It has precise control over the pressure from what I've seen.


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Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235403 10/09/19 11:22 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by onespiritbrain
Wouldn’t gas mileage benefit from the reduced engine strain.


Most oil filters are running around 3~4 psi delta-p most of the time. Google hydraulic HP equation and run the required HP numbers to overcome 3~4 psi of fluid pressure. It's miniscule.

Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235409 10/09/19 11:34 PM
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geeman789 Offline
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Originally Posted by onespiritbrain


Do we really need highly restricted paper media oil filters when the oil is changed at 3k miles?



You really need highly efficient AIR filters ... keep the dirt out, and the oil filters job is easy.


2011 SUBARU Impreza 5-door manual / 2016 HONDA Pilot / 2011 MAZDA 2 auto
Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235434 10/10/19 12:19 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by onespiritbrain
Do we really need highly restricted paper media oil filters when the oil is changed at 3k miles?


Where's the actual flow vs delta-p test data that shows certain oil filtets are highly restrictive.

There use to be a long lived internet tale that Purolator PureOne oil filters were "very flow restrictive" because they were so efficient. Then actual test data of the flow vs delta-p was shown, which kiboshed that false tale.

Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5235490 10/10/19 04:41 AM
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4WD Online Confused
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What happened to microGreen filters … used to be lots of chatter here over those

Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235536 10/10/19 06:22 AM
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shanneba Offline
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Isn't most of the contamination in the oil from combustion byproducts?


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Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235548 10/10/19 06:29 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by onespiritbrain
***This would not pertain to vehicles with engines that have extremely tight bearing clearances***

Do we really need highly restricted paper media oil filters when the oil is changed at 3k miles?.



I believe this is called a strawman argument.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

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Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235620 10/10/19 08:12 AM
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I would ask the expert from Dagobah.


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Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235643 10/10/19 08:35 AM
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edwardh1 Offline
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I am surprised that there is not a market for higher efficiency AIR filters


These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235649 10/10/19 08:39 AM
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onespiritbrain Offline OP
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Most, or really all, of my thoughts about anything relating to oil/filters, originates from an issue I am having with my vehicle.

I am fighting low oil pressure in my VG33 engine. Is it bearings or a worn pump, I don’t know, but I feel like a filter with less restriction would benefit me.

After some research the anecdotal consensus says that K&N oil filters provide the least resistance to flow. If I’m not too poor for the $15 filter I will try one next OCI.

Something I notice having a worn engine is that while I don’t have oil pressure low enough to signal the idiot light, I do have poor flow at idle enough that valve train noise appears and disappears with higher RPM/oil flow.

My thought is that as a vehicle’s oil pump begins to have trouble delivering oil to the valve train, a filter with less restriction to flow might help.

Last edited by onespiritbrain; 10/10/19 08:49 AM.
Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235662 10/10/19 08:51 AM
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Kestas Offline
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50 microns seems too generous. Why did you pick that number? I work with bearings and contaminant analysis. 50 microns is huge.

Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235682 10/10/19 09:13 AM
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circuitsmith Offline
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Originally Posted by onespiritbrain
Most, or really all, of my thoughts about anything relating to oil/filters, originates from an issue I am having with my vehicle.

I am fighting low oil pressure in my VG33 engine.


Most likely worn bearings. Worn oil pump making low pressure is virtually unheard of.
Gaining 1 psi with lower filter restriction won't make a meaningful difference.
How many miles on the engine?


2017 Hyundai Tucson SE FWD
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Re: Do we really need paper media filters? [Re: onespiritbrain] #5235859 10/10/19 12:22 PM
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DGXR Offline
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I think paper media is a good choice for standard /economy filters going up to 5k mile OCI. Assuming the engine has received regular service, 5k miles is not long enough to load up the media. Who changes their oil at 3k anyway? Even conventional oil in severe service can go at least 3750 miles.


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