what are some TRUE synthetics?

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Originally Posted by tundraotto
MOTUL 100% Ester oils - of which they offer many.


I did use that once long about in this bike but i don't think at the time the issue was present. I think i used thier semi. Which begs the question, if mineral oil with an additive package is synthetic, what is semi? Mineral with half the amount of additives?! Confusing stuff ! So ester means no mineral, correct? I'll look into it.

As to castrol 4T, i used that due to price a few years back twice but i gave up on it because the engine noise was thru the roof. Maybe coincidence? I dunno, but kinda gunshy after that. I DO see it gets great reviews so i dunno what to think given my experience with it.
 
Looks like i may have to try Motul 7100. They say "100% synthetic" and it's not expensive so i think i'll give it a go. Better viscosity index number then MI or castrol too. .
 
Originally Posted by sunruh
for what bike?
a hardley is a car motor from the 40's



Yeah but that "hardly" motor will keep running w/minimal issues. To answer the OPs question, I would go with Amsoil or Redline.
 
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
Originally Posted by Trav
Best you can get IMO and a true synthetic. No need to go all boutique for the right stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-10W-...l+10w50+4t&qid=1570475737&sr=8-2



I bought this at Autozone a couple of months ago when it was on clearance..

I scoured the innerwebs.. no data to be found on it.. no uoas, voas..nothing.



As this stuff comes down the assembly line after filling and capping, it passes closely by a true 100% PAO/Ester motor oil and those properties are magically induced into the casstrol like a Vulcan mind meld.
 
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by daz
Triumph 1700 P twin cruiser, water cooled. My understanding is that true 100% synthetic oils are zero mineral oil as opposed to mineral oil with a additive package.


I think you got it that Mineral is refined from crude but also
understand that its possible to refine that crude even higher to
qualify as a 100% synthetic... both products will meet or exceed your
mileage expectations but only one offers uniform molecules...

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]





This is oversimplified. While the mineral oil, class I and II has all sorts of different shaped carbon molecular chains/branches as noted by your illustration, the class III will have uniform chains/branches but maybe not the finished structure of a class IV. Uniform tumbleweed shaped carbon chains, class III, may be better than straight refined crude but not as good as a designed carbon structure class IV that is shaped like say a raindrop.
 
Originally Posted by daz
if mineral oil with an additive package is synthetic

It isn't.

"Mineral oil", "non-synthetic", or "conventional" means the base oil mix is primarily Group I and Group II.

"Synthetic" means Group III, IV, and V.

"Semi-synthetic" means some mix of those two categories. If there's a category with sketchy labeling practices, this is it.

In practice, Group I base oils are never used in modern oils except in tiny amounts as additive carriers, so mineral oils will be almost entirely Group II. Many oils labeled as non-synthetic will even include some higher base stocks to improve their performance, blurring the line between them and "semi-synthetics". This is especially true in the lighter viscosity grades. In the "synthetic" category, Group III is now the most common base oil type, though Group IVs (PAO) and V (ester) are very often present in some amounts.

Usually, when people talk about a "true" synthetic, they mean an oil that includes only Group IV and V base oils. This is pointless. Such oils are very expensive and not demonstrably better as a class than oils that include Group III -- which presumably explains why they're rare as hen's teeth.
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
This is oversimplified. While the mineral oil, class I and II has all sorts of different shaped carbon molecular chains/branches as noted by your illustration, the class III will have uniform chains/branches but maybe not the finished structure of a class IV. Uniform tumbleweed shaped carbon chains, class III, may be better than straight refined crude but not as good as a designed carbon structure class IV that is shaped like say a raindrop.

And let's not forget that the nice, pure, uniform-sized synthetic base oils will be contaminated by a variety of molecular shapes and sizes in the form of additives - nobody runs their engine on neat base oil. Furthermore, even in a 'pure' synthetic oil, there is usually at least two base oils present to get the right viscosity, so even if you are just looking at the base oils, it isn't 100% neat, single-source base oil.

Plus, molecules don't behave like solid spheres, nor indeed like any macro object.
 
Originally Posted by daz
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Spectro Platinum 4 . Group IV PAO blended with Group V ester. Ester likely the additive solubility agent.


Where did u get that info? It seems priced fairly reasonable but i can't find data on it even on the spectro site.


Page 6 of their downloadable product catalog where they explain their G4 technology behind the Platinum Full Synthetic motorcycle oils. The previous version of the catalog mentioned ester used in the formulation along with PAO. I don't see the ester reference anymore. But they do state it is full PAO group IV synthetic.

Spectro is a blender, they likely buy their PAO from Exxon-Mobil or Chevron.
 
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