Windows 7 Use After Support Ends

[nthach]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson

Those machines may have no internet access or they are networked over a VPN. In those scenarios, they're fine. .

On the bus ride from work the other day ago, I saw a Clever Devices IVN system bootup from a cold start. It's a heavily tweaked mobile PC running a Intel Atom CPU, eMMC storage and standard American Megatrends UEFI-based BIOS. It was running Windows 7 Embedded, heavily skinned and tweaked to load the main application(BusWare). It's communicating to the operator's dispatch center via AT&T or Verizon's public safety LTE networks. Not sure if the bus was using a Cisco router on board. There is an Icomera Moov mobile modem on board.

 

[LDM]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by hallstevenson

Those machines may have no internet access or they are networked over a VPN. In those scenarios, they're fine. Not too many years ago, some ATMs were still running OS/2. Most people will have no idea what that even is.


That's so true!!! LOL!!

Aren't the POS systems at Walmart and Costco running a variant of OS/2, given that IBM was a dominant player in POS? Toshiba did buy IBM's POS division, I'm suprised Lenovo didn't want to.


Not sure, I know some of them were using QNX.

Do you remember BeOS?


I don't know about Costco but I can tell you that Walmart still runs the ancient IBM POS 4690 OS. I used to work for NCR as a system/installation engineer and did many POS server upgrades for Walmart some years ago. We were still loading the software via 3.5" floppy disks as late as 2013 before they finally came up with a network load/copy option to use. Toshiba ended up buying all of the IBM POS systems around 2014 when IBM decided to exit the hardware business for their legacy equipment.

I also did NCR ATM installs and upgrades as well. OS/2 was in use until around 2010-2011 until security support updates was dropped. Then everything started moving to WIN XP embedded for ATMs. It wasn't long after that that everything in the NCR lineup from POS to ATMs used XP embedded. Still lots of stuff out there that still does because it can't be upgraded beyond XP. When I was still there we were in the process of moving the new WIN7 upgrades for the ATMs since XP was being phased out for support, which required a lot of hardware upgrades to allow it to run it. That was during NCRs "lets get rid of all our support groups and hire out this work to contractors" phase too. I saw the writing on the wall and got out not longer after that, they did a great job angering both their employees and customers, which is why they are in such a bad position today.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by LDM
I used to work for NCR as a system/installation engineer and did many POS server upgrades for Walmart some years ago.
That was during NCRs "lets get rid of all our support groups and hire out this work to contractors" phase too. I saw the writing on the wall and got out not longer after that, they did a great job angering both their employees and customers, which is why they are in such a bad position today.

I thought NCR was healthy - they gotten some ATM business as of late from Chase and some restaurants use their Aloha POS instead of evil Oracle's Micros systems. Mall retail seems keen on NCR.

 

[javacontour]

It was still a free upgrade last month when I took an old laptop my daughter left running Win7, popped in an SSD, rebuilt it with the recovery media and then downloaded the Microsoft upgrade tool.

Fully licensed, no games were needed.

Originally Posted by danez_yoda
Yes windows 7 was a great OS and many people will continue to use it. Just like XP before it, there will be malware out there that will specifically attack vulnerabilities in the older outdated operating system.

Do you do any banking on this machine? This could be a problem. If its a BITOG and news surfer only, no problem as long as you don't log into banking sites with it where a keyboard logger, password stealer or cookie sniffer could take your logins and cause you some headaches.

Windows 10 is only $100 and a fairly painless update from 7.

you might have luck with this. https://www.zdnet.com/article/this-...still-works-heres-why-and-how-to-get-it/

 

[BearZDefect]

Yes, Microsoft continues to offer free upgrades to Windows 10 for Windows 7 licenses.
It is understandable that Microsoft does not want to support Windows 7 anymore.
Microsoft does a better job than most at supporting legacy software.

But Windows 10 is not "so much more efficient" than Windows 7 as some think.
Windows 10 is better at taking advantage of the latest hardware for sure.

But if you put Windows 7 on a decent PC with an SSD it will fly.
And if you put Windows 10 on that old PC with a mechanical HD it will crawl.

If you have good Ivy Bridge hardware that you like and are happy using Windows 7 on it then I'd continue without being alarmed over the upcoming end of support.
Just be aware of the potential vulnerabilities that will eventually arise.

Your first lines of defence are your router/firewall and your browser/browsing habits.
If you are vigilant about those defenses then the OS itself is not nearly as important.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by BearZDefect
If you have good Ivy Bridge hardware that you like and are happy using Windows 7 on it then I'd continue without being alarmed over the upcoming end of support.
Yeah, I'm in that situation currently. Lenovo laptop with i5-3210m cpu, 8 GB RAM, SSD. I've been happy with Win7. Debating whether to upgrade to W10 or stay as is.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Windows 7 was a fantastic OS, but it's now ten years old. Unless you have some really old hardware or run applications that are known to not work with Win10 there's no real good reason to stick with Win7, especially when you can still upgrade to 10 for free.

 

[KrisZ]

After some thinking over this matter I decided to take advantage of the free upgrade. I have a win 7 pro version and win 10 pro is $199, so my thoughts were that after 2020, MS might end the free upgrade and I might be stuck paying the $200 to stay current. Ubuntu is fine for me, but not my wife unfortunately, so I need a windows machine.

I made a full Acronis disk image of win7 just in case the upgrade went sideways for some reason. I'm happy to report the upgrade went without a hiccup and now I have a fully licensed win 10 pro installed. Windows 10 apparently ties the license to hardware now, so no license key is required if you need to reinstall.
In theory I could go back to win 7 very easily by loading the disk image I created and hold off going to win 10 for as long as I feel comfortable. And when the time comes, install win 10 since it is now tied to my motherboard without the need to upgrade, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Maybe someone with more knowledge could confirm if my above assertion is true?

Speed wise, I see no difference even though some new drivers were available once I installed win 10.

 

[Pew]

Originally Posted by KrisZ

I made a full Acronis disk image of win7 just in case the upgrade went sideways for some reason. I'm happy to report the upgrade went without a hiccup and now I have a fully licensed win 10 pro installed. Windows 10 apparently ties the license to hardware now, so no license key is required if you need to reinstall.
In theory I could go back to win 7 very easily by loading the disk image I created and hold off going to win 10 for as long as I feel comfortable. And when the time comes, install win 10 since it is now tied to my motherboard without the need to upgrade, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Maybe someone with more knowledge could confirm if my above assertion is true?

Speed wise, I see no difference even though some new drivers were available once I installed win 10.


Did you build your PC or did it come from a OEM like Dell, HP, etc? The licenses are stored in the ACPI that the UEFI can access but only OEMs, as far as I know, can embed keys into the ACPI.

 

[KrisZ]

I built the computer myself. I will have to look into this then because I don't think I can use win7 key again to activate win 10 after re-installation. I'm pretty sure it's a one time thing.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by danez_yoda
you might have luck with this. https://www.zdnet.com/article/this-...still-works-heres-why-and-how-to-get-it/

This thread inspired me to just go ahead and upgrade from 7 to 10. I ran into a couple of issues along the way, but was able to sort it out. One was needing to increase the size of my MBR partition, and the other was to uninstall some Lenovo Rescue & Recovery program that Win10 wanted gone. Uninstalling it turned out to be a challenge due to some borked configuration resulting from earlier drive migration, but eventually I succeeded. All is well now.

Thank you for the above link!

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
I made a full Acronis disk image of win7 just in case the upgrade went sideways for some reason. I'm happy to report the upgrade went without a hiccup and now I have a fully licensed win 10 pro installed. Windows 10 apparently ties the license to hardware now, so no license key is required if you need to reinstall.
In theory I could go back to win 7 very easily by loading the disk image I created and hold off going to win 10 for as long as I feel comfortable. And when the time comes, install win 10 since it is now tied to my motherboard without the need to upgrade, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Maybe someone with more knowledge could confirm if my above assertion is true?

That should be the case, yes. You have a 'digital entitlement' now. Just as long as you use the same hardware it should activate again. I can't tell you the last time I actually had to plug in a Windows key.

FYI, you can do a clean installation also. During Win10 setup and it asks for the key, just click on 'I don't have one' and it'll continue. Once you're in Windows and it can talk on the Internet, it'll activate. It's kind of awesome.

To those who have a valid key and want to do a clean install, do the same as above. Once in Windows, give it your legal and valid Windows 7 key and it'll activate Win10 as long as you're using the same version. 32 vs 64, Home vs Pro. Windows 10 setup will NOT take a Win7 key. You have to skip that part and do once Windows is fully installed.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
I built the computer myself. I will have to look into this then because I don't think I can use win7 key again to activate win 10 after re-installation. I'm pretty sure it's a one time thing.


IIRC, it binds the key to the # stored in the BIOS or UEFI firmware, so a subsequent reinstall on the same motherboard will not have activation issues.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
Windows 10 setup will NOT take a Win7 key. You have to skip that part and do once Windows is fully installed.


Yes it does, I've done it probably 200 times.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I built the computer myself. I will have to look into this then because I don't think I can use win7 key again to activate win 10 after re-installation. I'm pretty sure it's a one time thing.


IIRC, it binds the key to the # stored in the BIOS or UEFI firmware, so a subsequent reinstall on the same motherboard will not have activation issues.


Thanks for confirmation, that was my understanding as well, but since I personally never dealt with win10 re-installation, I just wasn't sure.

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
Windows 10 setup will NOT take a Win7 key. You have to skip that part and do once Windows is fully installed.


Yes it does, I've done it probably 200 times.


It must be different keys though, no?

I used the upgrade function available in the media creation tool and win 10 activated automatically without asking from my win 7 key, but I presume it is somehow tied now to my win 10 version. Otherwise one could use the same win 7 key on multiple upgrades.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
Windows 10 setup will NOT take a Win7 key. You have to skip that part and do once Windows is fully installed.

Yes it does, I've done it probably 200 times.

That's not been my experience and I've tried it quite a few times.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
It must be different keys though, no?

I used the upgrade function available in the media creation tool and win 10 activated automatically without asking from my win 7 key, but I presume it is somehow tied now to my win 10 version. Otherwise one could use the same win 7 key on multiple upgrades.

FWIW, my product key has changed going from W7 to W10, alas, like you, I wasn't asked to provide it when upgrading.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I built the computer myself. I will have to look into this then because I don't think I can use win7 key again to activate win 10 after re-installation. I'm pretty sure it's a one time thing.


IIRC, it binds the key to the # stored in the BIOS or UEFI firmware, so a subsequent reinstall on the same motherboard will not have activation issues.


Thanks for confirmation, that was my understanding as well, but since I personally never dealt with win10 re-installation, I just wasn't sure.

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
Windows 10 setup will NOT take a Win7 key. You have to skip that part and do once Windows is fully installed.


Yes it does, I've done it probably 200 times.


It must be different keys though, no?

I used the upgrade function available in the media creation tool and win 10 activated automatically without asking from my win 7 key, but I presume it is somehow tied now to my win 10 version. Otherwise one could use the same win 7 key on multiple upgrades.


It activated because you already had a valid copy of Windows 7 installed. It's now bound to that hardware and whatever product key was used during your Windows 7 install. Interestingly, and I'm sure this definitely violates the TOS, but of course if you have an HP/DELL/Toshiba...etc they are all factory imaged and are not installed using the key that's present on the COA for the computer. So in theory, if you had another computer that didn't have a COA and you were doing a fresh install, you could technically use it, so you end up with two valid copies despite having one COA.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
Windows 10 setup will NOT take a Win7 key. You have to skip that part and do once Windows is fully installed.

Yes it does, I've done it probably 200 times.

That's not been my experience and I've tried it quite a few times.


I get a lot of HP/DELL/Lenovo rigs that have been evergreened out of service with valid Windows 7 COA's on the side of them. I run a wipe on the HDD (or slap in an SSD) and use a copy of Windows 10 either on USB or PXE booted to perform a fresh install on the drive. I use the key that's on the Windows 7 COA for that and I don't recall it ever not working actually

Currently doing this with build 1903 with zero issues.

 

[Pew]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
Windows 10 setup will NOT take a Win7 key. You have to skip that part and do once Windows is fully installed.

Yes it does, I've done it probably 200 times.

That's not been my experience and I've tried it quite a few times.


I get a lot of HP/DELL/Lenovo rigs that have been evergreened out of service with valid Windows 7 COA's on the side of them. I run a wipe on the HDD (or slap in an SSD) and use a copy of Windows 10 either on USB or PXE booted to perform a fresh install on the drive. I use the key that's on the Windows 7 COA for that and I don't recall it ever not working actually

Currently doing this with build 1903 with zero issues.


I can confirm. I've been able to use most Windows 7 keys (back when they came on hologram stickers) on fresh Win10 installations when activating the keys through control panel.