Is fuel dilution taken into account when they recommend xw-20?

[parshisa]

What oil are you running?

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer

So, are you saying she doesn't have a valid point?

She's not the only one who thinks this.

After all, she didn't make it up. She read it somewhere.


I have no idea...I'm not an automobile engineer but that statement requires some level proof from a reputable source IMO.


As would the practice of using a heavier oil (for example, using a 0W-30 in an engine that calls for 0W-20).


Sigh....clever. I'm just asking for a reference. The difference is I'm not making any claims to the board about what can or can't be used...you are and what you're saying is generally not accepted as true. So again, I'm just asking for a reference.


Not really trying to argue, but, if you look at what I said, I actually haven't made any claims either way.

As a matter of fact, I'm in the camp that the thinner oils are generally for fuel economy and meeting CAFE standards. I just went with what her car calls for because it's under warranty, there have been issues with these engines, and she felt more comfortable adhering to what the book calls for.

I'm just saying if you want to use a heavier oil than what's recommended, you also need documentation/reference, or you're risking a warranty denial if you have some kind of engine failure.

If you're vehicle is out of warranty, who cares. Use what you want.

 

[parshisa]

Entire world runs up to 50 weight oils, no sweat. This warranty shamoranty BS is sooooo annoying, cmon guys, common sense, use it

 

[4WD]

There are some differences between my 2010 5.3L (5w30) and my 2018 5.3L (0w20) - oil cooler, piston jets, variable oil pumps, going from 6 quarts to 8 quarts, etc

These engines have a well confined crank keeping things stiff and concentric - not much timing chain, push rods etc ...

All that said, after warranty I'd consider 5w30

 

[Tjbouwhu]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.

She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.



I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?


So, are you saying she doesn't have a valid point?

She's not the only one who thinks this.

After all, she didn't make it up. She read it somewhere.


I have no idea...I'm not an automobile engineer but that statement requires some level proof from a reputable source IMO.

Isn't what is printed on the oil cap an written in the owners manual what the automotive engineers recommend...?

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by Tjbouwhu
[

I have no idea...I'm not an automobile engineer but that statement requires some level proof from a reputable source IMO.

Isn't what is printed on the oil cap an written in the owners manual what the automotive engineers recommend...?[/quote]

Yes, but that's not what is being debated here. It was hinted that thicker oil should not be used because engine tolerances are so small it would be detrimental to use a thicker oil. There are many reasons manufactures recommend a particular oil viscosity and to my knowledge that is NOT one of them.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
....but that statement requires some level proof from a reputable source IMO.

People here make statements every day as if they're fact but in many or most cases, it's just their (unqualified) opinion.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Yes, but that's not what is being debated here. It was hinted that thicker oil should not be used because engine tolerances are so small it would be detrimental to use a thicker oil. There are many reasons manufactures recommend a particular oil viscosity and to my knowledge that is NOT one of them.


Yeah, the whole "thinner oils are needed for tighter clearanced engines" is a misnomer that has gotten traction for some reason.

Engine clearances (ie, rod and crank journal bearings, piston to cylinder clearances, etc) have been tight for decades, before CAFE really got their hooks deep.

Also, many of the same engines used in cars outside of the US have thicker oils specified by the manufacturers. Use of xW-16 and xW-20 oils in the US is highly driven by CAFE.

 

[Lowflyer]

Proof of concept: 10W-60 in a -30 A5 engine (like M2C-913-D). Horribly wear values anywhere?
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...trol-edge-10w-60-kia-ceed-1-6-g4fc-10380

Not horribly nor average. The values are really good.

 

[ChrisD46]

Rat 540 states 5W30 is the ideal oil grade for modern engines ...
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Yes, but that's not what is being debated here. It was hinted that thicker oil should not be used because engine tolerances are so small it would be detrimental to use a thicker oil. There are many reasons manufactures recommend a particular oil viscosity and to my knowledge that is NOT one of them.


Yeah, the whole "thinner oils are needed for tighter clearanced engines" is a misnomer that has gotten traction for some reason.

Engine clearances (ie, rod and crank journal bearings, piston to cylinder clearances, etc) have been tight for decades, before CAFE really got their hooks deep.

Also, many of the same engines used in cars outside of the US have thicker oils specified by the manufacturers. Use of xW-16 and xW-20 oils in the US is highly driven by CAFE.

 

[Lowflyer]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Rat 540 states 5W30 is the ideal oil grade for modern engines ...
Wow. Directly "ideal"... Ok.

Two (and half) similar questions on the subject:
1a. Which evolutions in metallurgy, than being utilized (!) in ours modern but ordinary cars, indicate, 5w30 are good, better or even "ideal" for those engines, instead for example classical 0w40 or 5w40?

1b. Which evolutions in metallurgy, than being utilized (!) in ours modern but ordinary cars, indicate, 5w30 with 3.5 HTHS?

2. Which evolutions of addpacks and/or base oils, indicate, modern wee-wee oils are better or good enough for modern but ordinary engines?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Yes, but that's not what is being debated here. It was hinted that thicker oil should not be used because engine tolerances are so small it would be detrimental to use a thicker oil. There are many reasons manufactures recommend a particular oil viscosity and to my knowledge that is NOT one of them.


Yeah, the whole "thinner oils are needed for tighter clearanced engines" is a misnomer that has gotten traction for some reason.

Engine clearances (ie, rod and crank journal bearings, piston to cylinder clearances, etc) have been tight for decades, before CAFE really got their hooks deep.

Also, many of the same engines used in cars outside of the US have thicker oils specified by the manufacturers. Use of xW-16 and xW-20 oils in the US is highly driven by CAFE.

I agree, you see that term "tighter clearances" used a lot around here. I recall seeing many engines go from 30 grade to 20 grade oil with the change of a model year and an oil fill cap, no other changes. "Clearances" remained the same, for decades as you stated.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
[ I agree, you see that term "tighter clearances" used a lot around here. I recall seeing many engines go from 30 grade to 20 grade oil with the change of a model year and an oil fill cap, no other changes. "Clearances" remained the same, for decades as you stated.

Those are the best examples - when the automaker chooses to use a different spec, they'll do it based on model year just for a clean switch. If the engine designation or code didn't change, you can be 100% certain that the oil requirement didn't change due to design or engineering changes.

Also, as already pointed out, if this same engine in other countries allows different oil grades, you know there isn't a technical reason that's unique to US engines. If someone says "they make a different engine for different countries" while the engine code for all of those countries doesn't change, that person is 100% clueless.

 

[Lowflyer]

Hey guys, again. Fresh on the counter. Edge 10W-60 in A5 oil engine. Horribly wear values

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...w-60-kia-ceed-1-6-g4fc-10380#Post5231589

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by 4WD
My 2010 5.3L was 6 quarts of 5w30
My 2018 5.3L is 8 quarts of 0w20
Several other mechanical changes

My sons 2016 GMC Denali called for 0-20 and he did the 15K OCI with M1 0-20 EP. When he sold it this last spring it had 95K and the engine ran great, but it had 75% hwy mileage. He then traded it in for a 2019 GMC Denali and already has 25K.

 

[Lowflyer]

75% U.S highway mileage is the best driving profile than a car can have... Denali, which? Terrain? Or Yukon?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by Lowflyer
75% U.S highway mileage is the best driving profile than a car can have... Denali, which? Terrain? Or Yukon?

It depends on where the highway is. Long Island highways suck, especially during rush hour where 20 miles can typically take 60-90 miles to cover. That same distance heading into NYC can take 2-3 hours.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
What do most manufactures care about? Getting the car through the warranty and possibly the window for common surveys on reliability. They don't care if your car will do +200K miles but these days just about any car can get through warranty regardless of the oil used and fuel dilution. Matter-of-fact it's in their interest that your car doesn't last so you have to buy a new one...and if the car lasts just long enough and keeps you happy just long enough...hopefully you buy from them.

So no..unless it would have an effect on 0-60K miles I don't think they care what oil grade is best for the very long-term...just which is best for meeting CAFE and warranty obligations. That said, I agree with others that I don't believe I've ever seen real proof that fuel dilution is really a problem. I've seen lots of UOAs with significant fuel dilution and great wear numbers.


I actually do think manufacturers want their cars to last, because most of them understand that used cars are the best advertising for new cars.

If you have a used car that treats you well and runs a long time, you're a lot more likely to stick with that brand when the time comes to buy a new one. Companies like Honda and Toyota have built themselves on that sort of thing.

 

[Zolton]

Young people perhaps never saw an old school owner's manual with a visc / temp chart, which allows the owner to select from a dozen visc grades based on ambient temp...CAFE put an end to that, not ~clearances~

These aren't even very old, just obscure in the USA

Here they correctly placed 5w-30 is a lower category than 0w-40

The difference in visc between 20 weight and 30 weight at OP temp being about 10%, no big deal. Extreme cold would be the only reason I'd reach for 20 weight. The owner's manuals with the charts cautions against sustained high speed driving on 20 weight.

 

[Zolton]