F150 EB 2.7 vs EB 3.5 vs V8

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
So to get this straight, because you had a bad experience with one tech, and many people have bad experience with quick lube places, you are now smarter than all automotive technicians. I understand. As someone who has worked in dealerships and independent garages with some very smart techs, I'll stick to my own experiences and theirs as opposed to yours.

Your problem is easily fixed by doing the oil change yourself. And it also has nothing to do with techs seeing how many of one engine have expensive failures compared to others.


Please cite this trend of "expensive failures" of the two ecoboost engines which you are apparently referencing against the V8. I submit that all the long block replacements occurring on the 5.0 under TSB 2058 may be of greater concern than these alleged expensive failures of ecoboosts.

As far as my personal faith in dealership skillz... January 2019 (this yr) I took my former car (later traded on the F150), a 2009 Subaru Forester, in to it's dealership for a leaking rear output shaft seal that was causing manual transmission 75W90 to be dispersed onto under carriage and exhaust plumbing. Repair was completed. Required a special tool costing more than the charge for the repair and known to take about 4 hrs DIY is why I opted for dealership work. Fast forward to May 2019. It's leaking again, exact same symptom. Take it back for a do-over. Oh but it's not their seal repair that's causing the exact same leak. Now it's the entire rear module section of the manual trans needs replaced. $900 quote parts and labor. How was that missed the first time? Or was it "change a part and see if that works" instead of proper diagnosis? The output seal housing of the rear module is "warped" was their justification for the 2nd attempt. I politely accepted the estimate invoice and walked. I disclosed the paperwork to the Ford dealer upon negotiating deal on the truck, when trading in the Subaru. Carfax on my Subaru a month later revealed that before they sold it they replaced the shaft seal. Which means one of two things. Either the Subaru dealer was right and the Ford dealer performed wrong repair (replacing only the seal when entire "warped" rear module needed replaced), or the Subaru dealer lied and their initial seal repair was faulty and all the Ford dealer needed to do was correct their work by replacing the seal again.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
So to get this straight, because you had a bad experience with one tech, and many people have bad experience with quick lube places, you are now smarter than all automotive technicians. I understand. As someone who has worked in dealerships and independent garages with some very smart techs, I'll stick to my own experiences and theirs as opposed to yours.

Your problem is easily fixed by doing the oil change yourself. And it also has nothing to do with techs seeing how many of one engine have expensive failures compared to others.


Please cite this trend of "expensive failures" of the two ecoboost engines which you are apparently referencing against the V8. I submit that all the long block replacements occurring on the 5.0 under TSB 2058 may be of greater concern than these alleged expensive failures of ecoboosts.

As far as my personal faith in dealership skillz... January 2019 (this yr) I took my former car (later traded on the F150), a 2009 Subaru Forester, in to it's dealership for a leaking rear output shaft seal that was causing manual transmission 75W90 to be dispersed onto under carriage and exhaust plumbing. Repair was completed. Required a special tool costing more than the charge for the repair and known to take about 4 hrs DIY is why I opted for dealership work. Fast forward to May 2019. It's leaking again, exact same symptom. Take it back for a do-over. Oh but it's not their seal repair that's causing the exact same leak. Now it's the entire rear module section of the manual trans needs replaced. $900 quote parts and labor. How was that missed the first time? Or was it "change a part and see if that works" instead of proper diagnosis? The output seal housing of the rear module is "warped" was their justification for the 2nd attempt. I politely accepted the estimate invoice and walked. I disclosed the paperwork to the Ford dealer upon negotiating deal on the truck, when trading in the Subaru. Carfax on my Subaru a month later revealed that before they sold it they replaced the shaft seal. Which means one of two things. Either the Subaru dealer was right and the Ford dealer performed wrong repair (replacing only the seal when entire "warped" rear module needed replaced), or the Subaru dealer lied and their initial seal repair was faulty and all the Ford dealer needed to do was correct their work by replacing the seal again.


I would guess the last option, just the seal but who knows. It still has nothing to do with the original discussion and nobody is going to change your mind no matter what, so I'm just going to leave it there.

I personally know someone who had to spend $7000 to get a used Ecoboost for their Taurus sho after the turbos failed and destroyed the engine. Afaik the 5.0 issues are to do with oil usage and not completely engine failure. Lots of engines have had oil usage problems over the years and still been reliable long term. But like I said, there is no arguing with you. I'm done now.

 

[clinebarger]

I also like the simplicity of a N/A V8, But it's hard to ignore the track record of the 3.5L Ecoboost used in the F150! I have several customers with them & I'm impressed to say the least!

Did spark plugs on a 2015 3.5L Eco equipped F150 today with 100,000 miles on it, No major issues to date & pulls a loaded 16' foot tool trailer daily (He's a framing contractor)

Ford has technicians doing too much with the cab on the truck....Any major engine repair should call to pull the cab! Makes it easier for the mechanic & his body!

I wouldn't buy a internal water pump engine, So I can't agree with your Taurus comparison. To think Ford used to run the water pump off a camshaft on the Duratech which definitely shares DNA with the Ecoboost 3.5L engines.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
I also like the simplicity of a N/A V8, But it's hard to ignore the track record of the 3.5L Ecoboost used in the F150! I have several customers with them & I'm impressed to say the least!

Did spark plugs on a 2015 3.5L Eco equipped F150 today with 100,000 miles on it, No major issues to date & pulls a loaded 16' foot tool trailer daily (He's a framing contractor)

Ford has technicians doing too much with the cab on the truck....Any major engine repair should call to pull the cab! Makes it easier for the mechanic & his body!

I wouldn't buy a internal water pump engine, So I can't agree with your Taurus comparison. To think Ford used to run the water pump off a camshaft on the Duratech which definitely shares DNA with the Ecoboost 3.5L engines.


I agree that I wouldn't buy one because of the internal water pump knowing how much they cost to fix, but my point was that the engine failed because the turbos failed. He saved up for months to replace them (they were making a bunch of noise) and then after replacing them they found out the engine was destroyed because metal went through it. Bad luck for sure and it doesn't happen to everyone but it does happen and that particular failure wouldn't have happened without turbos.

Ideally I wouldn't want turbos, internal water pump, or a timing belt. But I guess that's why I'm still driving 1980s relics. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert but working in the automotive industry for a number of years has soured me on new technology. Sure it's great and makes newer cars nicer and more convenient but I got to write up the repair estimates and destroy people's hopes and dreams more often than I like. That and the pay pushed me out of it 5 years ago.

 

[Cujet]

It's always good to remember that the use of a quality synthetic oil and frequent oil changes is of the utmost importance in turbocharged vehicles. When you hear of turbo failures, inadequate maintenance practices are nearly always to blame.

Turbocharger coking has not been solved by water cooled housings. Instead, modern turbos use a series of additional design changes that make them MORE TOLERANT of coking. Including larger clearances inside and outside of the hot section seals and reconfigured internal heat shields. This allows carbon to build up without seizure.

There are exceedingly few Mobil 1 users, employing 5000 mile OCI's, experiencing turbo failure.



NOTE: The OLM and the manual provide maximum oil change intervals. Intervals driven partly by the environmental impact of frequent oil changes.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by Cujet
It's always good to remember that the use of a quality synthetic oil and frequent oil changes is of the utmost importance in turbocharged vehicles. When you hear of turbo failures, inadequate maintenance practices are nearly always to blame.

Turbocharger coking has not been solved by water cooled housings. Instead, modern turbos use a series of additional design changes that make them MORE TOLERANT of coking. Including larger clearances inside and outside of the hot section seals and reconfigured internal heat shields. This allows carbon to build up without seizure.

There are exceedingly few Mobil 1 users, employing 5000 mile OCI's, experiencing turbo failure.



NOTE: The OLM and the manual provide maximum oil change intervals. Intervals driven partly by the environmental impact of frequent oil changes.


Oil change intervals were not the cause in this case of this guy's Taurus sho. The owner was a service advisor in a dealership and was hardcore about maintenance like any of us here are or much better likely. But yes I agree with you.

 

[oilpsi2high]

There are plenty of guys on TheHullTruth who have over 200,000+ hard miles on their 3.5 EB's.

In SE PA, a truck will likely rust out to the point of becoming unsafe long before any major drivetrain issues present themselves.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by oilpsi2high
There are plenty of guys on TheHullTruth who have over 200,000+ hard miles on their 3.5 EB's.

In SE PA, a truck will likely rust out to the point of becoming unsafe long before any major drivetrain issues present themselves.


Here in Ontario Canada vehicles start rusting within probably 6 years. My work supplied truck is a 2005 Silverado (15 years old now) and it has almost 200k miles, 8140 engine hours and the doors and tailgate open probably 10-20 times a day on average at least (especially the driver's door). Lots of idling with heat or AC on (I do land surveying). So far the truck has had a couple front end parts (some ball joints and a wheel bearing), front and rear brakes, tires 3 times, a fuel pump sending unit (rusted out), and a water pump. Also on it's third battery.

The rest of the drivetrain is original.

 

[oilpsi2high]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by oilpsi2high
There are plenty of guys on TheHullTruth who have over 200,000+ hard miles on their 3.5 EB's.

In SE PA, a truck will likely rust out to the point of becoming unsafe long before any major drivetrain issues present themselves.


Here in Ontario Canada vehicles start rusting within probably 6 years. My work supplied truck is a 2005 Silverado (15 years old now) and it has almost 200k miles, 8140 engine hours and the doors and tailgate open probably 10-20 times a day on average at least (especially the driver's door). Lots of idling with heat or AC on (I do land surveying). So far the truck has had a couple front end parts (some ball joints and a wheel bearing), front and rear brakes, tires 3 times, a fuel pump sending unit (rusted out), and a water pump. Also on it's third battery.

The rest of the drivetrain is original.


What motor is in it? Is it oil sprayed every year?

We just had to retire a 2002 model year truck due to rust, but it was never oil sprayed.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I also like the simplicity of a N/A V8, But it's hard to ignore the track record of the 3.5L Ecoboost used in the F150! I have several customers with them & I'm impressed to say the least!

Did spark plugs on a 2015 3.5L Eco equipped F150 today with 100,000 miles on it, No major issues to date & pulls a loaded 16' foot tool trailer daily (He's a framing contractor)

Ford has technicians doing too much with the cab on the truck....Any major engine repair should call to pull the cab! Makes it easier for the mechanic & his body!

I wouldn't buy a internal water pump engine, So I can't agree with your Taurus comparison. To think Ford used to run the water pump off a camshaft on the Duratech which definitely shares DNA with the Ecoboost 3.5L engines.


I agree that I wouldn't buy one because of the internal water pump knowing how much they cost to fix, but my point was that the engine failed because the turbos failed. He saved up for months to replace them (they were making a bunch of noise) and then after replacing them they found out the engine was destroyed because metal went through it. Bad luck for sure and it doesn't happen to everyone but it does happen and that particular failure wouldn't have happened without turbos.

Ideally I wouldn't want turbos, internal water pump, or a timing belt. But I guess that's why I'm still driving 1980s relics. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert but working in the automotive industry for a number of years has soured me on new technology. Sure it's great and makes newer cars nicer and more convenient but I got to write up the repair estimates and destroy people's hopes and dreams more often than I like. That and the pay pushed me out of it 5 years ago.



Was this car "Tuned", Having Compressor side failures on both Turbos isn't very likely on a stock calibrated vehicle! Start overspeeding them & Running them outside their efficiency map is a recipe for failure.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by oilpsi2high
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by oilpsi2high
There are plenty of guys on TheHullTruth who have over 200,000+ hard miles on their 3.5 EB's.

In SE PA, a truck will likely rust out to the point of becoming unsafe long before any major drivetrain issues present themselves.


4.8 engine. Here in Ontario Canada vehicles start rusting within probably 6 years. My work supplied truck is a 2005 Silverado (15 years old now) and it has almost 200k miles, 8140 engine hours and the doors and tailgate open probably 10-20 times a day on average at least (especially the driver's door). Lots of idling with heat or AC on (I do land surveying). So far the truck has had a couple front end parts (some ball joints and a wheel bearing), front and rear brakes, tires 3 times, a fuel pump sending unit (rusted out), and a water pump. Also on it's third battery.

The rest of the drivetrain is original.


What motor is in it? Is it oil sprayed every year?

We just had to retire a 2002 model year truck due to rust, but it was never oil sprayed.


It was bought used so unknown before that but our company has them oil sprayed every second year up until they think it's not worth it anymore which in my trucks case was a couple of years ago they figured it was at end of life. We had the driver's floor patched last Christmas because of mud accumulation under the driver's mat rusted it out. It almost got retired then but when they found out it would only be $1000 for all repairs it got a second lease on life. At this point it has a tiny hole in one cab corner and the rest of it as far as I can see is nearly rust free. The frame looks better than our 2010 Tacoma which is still being oil sprayed every second year and got it from nearly new.

The last truck to get retired was a 2002 GMC with a 5.3 about 2 years ago, it needed rocker panels and cab corners but the rest was still good. I purchased it for the engine and transmission and sold the rest to my friend who works in a body shop so he could swap the rest of the good body onto his rust bucket truck. It also had the oil treatment every second year for probably half its life (not by the first owner, and not the past 3 years of service).

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I also like the simplicity of a N/A V8, But it's hard to ignore the track record of the 3.5L Ecoboost used in the F150! I have several customers with them & I'm impressed to say the least!

Did spark plugs on a 2015 3.5L Eco equipped F150 today with 100,000 miles on it, No major issues to date & pulls a loaded 16' foot tool trailer daily (He's a framing contractor)

Ford has technicians doing too much with the cab on the truck....Any major engine repair should call to pull the cab! Makes it easier for the mechanic & his body!

I wouldn't buy a internal water pump engine, So I can't agree with your Taurus comparison. To think Ford used to run the water pump off a camshaft on the Duratech which definitely shares DNA with the Ecoboost 3.5L engines.


I agree that I wouldn't buy one because of the internal water pump knowing how much they cost to fix, but my point was that the engine failed because the turbos failed. He saved up for months to replace them (they were making a bunch of noise) and then after replacing them they found out the engine was destroyed because metal went through it. Bad luck for sure and it doesn't happen to everyone but it does happen and that particular failure wouldn't have happened without turbos.

Ideally I wouldn't want turbos, internal water pump, or a timing belt. But I guess that's why I'm still driving 1980s relics. I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert but working in the automotive industry for a number of years has soured me on new technology. Sure it's great and makes newer cars nicer and more convenient but I got to write up the repair estimates and destroy people's hopes and dreams more often than I like. That and the pay pushed me out of it 5 years ago.



Was this car "Tuned", Having Compressor side failures on both Turbos isn't very likely on a stock calibrated vehicle! Start overspeeding them & Running them outside their efficiency map is a recipe for failure.



As far as I know it wasn't tuned, but I can find out for sure.

 

[oilpsi2high]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by oilpsi2high
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by oilpsi2high
There are plenty of guys on TheHullTruth who have over 200,000+ hard miles on their 3.5 EB's.

In SE PA, a truck will likely rust out to the point of becoming unsafe long before any major drivetrain issues present themselves.


4.8 engine. Here in Ontario Canada vehicles start rusting within probably 6 years. My work supplied truck is a 2005 Silverado (15 years old now) and it has almost 200k miles, 8140 engine hours and the doors and tailgate open probably 10-20 times a day on average at least (especially the driver's door). Lots of idling with heat or AC on (I do land surveying). So far the truck has had a couple front end parts (some ball joints and a wheel bearing), front and rear brakes, tires 3 times, a fuel pump sending unit (rusted out), and a water pump. Also on it's third battery.

The rest of the drivetrain is original.


What motor is in it? Is it oil sprayed every year?

We just had to retire a 2002 model year truck due to rust, but it was never oil sprayed.


It was bought used so unknown before that but our company has them oil sprayed every second year up until they think it's not worth it anymore which in my trucks case was a couple of years ago they figured it was at end of life. We had the driver's floor patched last Christmas because of mud accumulation under the driver's mat rusted it out. It almost got retired then but when they found out it would only be $1000 for all repairs it got a second lease on life. At this point it has a tiny hole in one cab corner and the rest of it as far as I can see is nearly rust free. The frame looks better than our 2010 Tacoma which is still being oil sprayed every second year and got it from nearly new.

The last truck to get retired was a 2002 GMC with a 5.3 about 2 years ago, it needed rocker panels and cab corners but the rest was still good. I purchased it for the engine and transmission and sold the rest to my friend who works in a body shop so he could swap the rest of the good body onto his rust bucket truck. It also had the oil treatment every second year for probably half its life (not by the first owner, and not the past 3 years of service).


Now that's how you get your money's worth out of a vehicle!