Tow vehicle size

[supton]

Originally Posted by Nick1994
I think by the time you bought an older tow vehicle to replace the truck, and spent the money getting it up to snuff, you'd be right back where you are, but with an older vehicle with unknown reliability.

Yeah, I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking about it, before doing it. But I don't like FUD driving things--it worked out ok on my Camry, after all. But by the same token, I'm using FUD to get out of my truck... so there's that. Everything breaks down but I have a sinking feeling that most future repairs are better left with a real mechanic (which I don't have).

Originally Posted by JLTD
If you want to keep the trailer and are considering an SUV instead of the Tundra, you may want to check out the 4Runner. Not a cute ute, but real 4wd (and awd available).

I've thought about the 4Runner, haven't ruled them out yet. Just seems overkill.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Nick1994
I think by the time you bought an older tow vehicle to replace the truck, and spent the money getting it up to snuff, you'd be right back where you are, but with an older vehicle with unknown reliability.

Yeah, I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking about it, before doing it. But I don't like FUD driving things--it worked out ok on my Camry, after all. But by the same token, I'm using FUD to get out of my truck... so there's that. Everything breaks down but I have a sinking feeling that most future repairs are better left with a real mechanic (which I don't have).

Originally Posted by JLTD
If you want to keep the trailer and are considering an SUV instead of the Tundra, you may want to check out the 4Runner. Not a cute ute, but real 4wd (and awd available).

I've thought about the 4Runner, haven't ruled them out yet. Just seems overkill.


4Runners have a very short wheelbase and are terrible for towing.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by CKN
4Runners have a very short wheelbase and are terrible for towing.

Towing big loads you mean? I've found my Camry to be a wonderful tow rig. For my 4x8 utility trailer.

I could see 4Runner having issues with a long travel trailer, those have lots of side surface area for inducing sway. Soft suspension doesn't help. But they still have a decent tow rating, which is saying something in today's litigious society.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by CKN
4Runners have a very short wheelbase and are terrible for towing.

Towing big loads you mean? I've found my Camry to be a wonderful tow rig. For my 4x8 utility trailer.

I could see 4Runner having issues with a long travel trailer, those have lots of side surface area for inducing sway. Soft suspension doesn't help. But they still have a decent tow rating, which is saying something in today's litigious society.


Yes-and some half-tons are rated for 10,000 to 12,000 pounds-but in reality can't go anywhere near those ratings due to payload capacity.

Those of us who tow REAL WEIGHT know these things......

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by CKN
4Runners have a very short wheelbase and are terrible for towing.

Towing big loads you mean? I've found my Camry to be a wonderful tow rig. For my 4x8 utility trailer.

I could see 4Runner having issues with a long travel trailer, those have lots of side surface area for inducing sway. Soft suspension doesn't help. But they still have a decent tow rating, which is saying something in today's litigious society.



No issues towing 1400 miles last year, with a dual axle 6x12 Uhaul trailer loaded close to 5000lbs.

Wouldn't consider 109.8" (~278 cm) a short wheelbase.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by CKN
4Runners have a very short wheelbase and are terrible for towing.

Towing big loads you mean? I've found my Camry to be a wonderful tow rig. For my 4x8 utility trailer.

I could see 4Runner having issues with a long travel trailer, those have lots of side surface area for inducing sway. Soft suspension doesn't help. But they still have a decent tow rating, which is saying something in today's litigious society.


Yes-and some half-tons are rated for 10,000 to 12,000 pounds-but in reality can't go anywhere near those ratings due to payload capacity.

Those of us who tow REAL WEIGHT know these things......


Within their ratings, 4Runner's tow just fine. My sister towed a boat with a 3rd gen 2001 4Runner for 14 years in Utah which as you no doubt know means heading to higher elevation over mountain roads starting at 5k feet in elevation where she lives. The boat and trailer weigh right at 5k lbs when the boat is fully fueled and loaded. She was close on payload, but not over. Then she sold the '01 4Runner and bought a '16 TRD ORP 4Runner, and towed the same boat for a couple years, before trading for a Limited 4Runner, still towing the same boat.

The newer 4Runner's have the same tow rating as the old 3rd gen, and about the same payload. But they are a larger vehicle with a more powerful engine, and the 5th gen 4Runner weighs about 1k more than the old 3rd gen.

 

[dareo]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by CKN
4Runners have a very short wheelbase and are terrible for towing.

Towing big loads you mean? I've found my Camry to be a wonderful tow rig. For my 4x8 utility trailer.

I could see 4Runner having issues with a long travel trailer, those have lots of side surface area for inducing sway. Soft suspension doesn't help. But they still have a decent tow rating, which is saying something in today's litigious society.


Yes-and some half-tons are rated for 10,000 to 12,000 pounds-but in reality can't go anywhere near those ratings due to payload capacity.

Those of us who tow REAL WEIGHT know these things......


Not sure why your so harsh on half tons. Take a 2016 GMC max tow package 6.2 for example, 4x4 CCSB model rated to tow 11,700 lb. To tow the maximum at 10% tongue weight that would take up 1170 lb of payload. I'd have to double check my manual but my exact truck is between 1800-2000 lb payload. The late model F150s with the right packages have even more payload than mine. A more real world example would be somebody pulling a 10k trailer with 15% tongue load because they didn't balance it at all, still only 1500lb payload. Would i recommend it for the travelling, big family, big RV hauler? No. There is not enough payload for 6 passengers and all their gear plus the 5 digit trailer. Should the professional contractor hauling heavy every day go for a half ton? No. But if you are like me and rent a dump trailer or something once in a while it tows just fine.

Also, OP, i don't think i would worry too much about towing that trailer. I was filling a 14x7x4' tall dump trailer totally full of construction debris and it only scaled out about 1500-1900lbs per dump. A load was over the top with carpet and pad, still under 2,000lbs. Another was all plywood, sheetrock, studs, filled level, and only 1800lbs. A load of heavy tree cuttings filled way over the top, also under 2000lbs. The dump charges by the lb and measure this very well for me. I figured it would have been way more weight. So, if your not trying to haul pallets of tile or concrete, and you don't drive like an idiot, i'd think your fine with a tow vehicle rated about 5k or higher.

 

[supton]

The hard part about towing is finding numbers. Last time I looked it seemed hard to find all three when looking at a vehicle--they'd give GVWR and GCWR but leave off curb. Annoying. I understand, they don't want to publish wrong numbers, not when any dealer installed item would trash it: but c'mon, a few pounds either way never hurt anyone. Especially not anyone who is going to look ahead and plan to not exceed 80% of GCWR.

Anyhow. I recall seeing a unibody or two that would allow max GVWR with max towing. It happens, certainly not for 1/2 ton trucks! I think minivans are often like that...

Anyhow, annoying case in point, Toyota's website does not list GCWR for the Highlander. Stupid! Does give curb at 4310 and GVWR at 5840. More google work finds a 9,900 GCWR (have to be careful, they have several different configurations). 5k trailer should have at least 500lb on the hitch, plus 4310 curb, is only 4810. But while payload isn't exceeded GCWR is about max. IMO, a conservative setup would be curb + 500lb people&stuff + 400lb hitch = 5200, that says 3,000 pound trailer for the typical family headed out on vacation. 3k would allow you get trinkets on the way, 4k would have you watching where you stash stuff. I don't see anything about wind load though, and travel trailers can have huge drag.

Simple math, really. Alter as necessary. If it's just you in the cab then max tow can probably be hit. Load up with people or cargo and what you can tow (usually) drops.

*

If I may tangent off, Toyota is screwed up on payload and towing. They state low payloads in general on their trucks, and don't like to advertise all three numbers. My truck originally was rated for 8,200 but with a paltry 1,240 payload. Fine, I keep that in account, figured 5k was a good limit for a half ton. Heck last time I towed I thought the passenger car tires squirmed a lot, and that was with my single axle trailer. Anyhow, the following year my truck dropped to 7,900, and then, without changing the drivetrain my model dropped to 6,500 with the new sheetmetal (that had a lower curb weight in the new model!). I'm left not sure what my truck is really rated for. Other than to steer far clear of it.

 

[RTexasF]

The V-6 RAV4 is rated to tow 3500 lbs ONLY if equipped with the tow prep package from the factory. Trailer brakes are required over 600 lbs. If that is your choice then look for a 2012 model which is the last year for the V-6. It will be a bit newer and hopefully with less miles. A Firestone Ride Right kit (airbags) may be required for the rear depending on tongue weight.

How to tell if it has tow prep pkg:

 

[supton]

Thanks, I remember that bit about the RAV4 and would shop on that basis. I think there was an engine cooler involved, which was the "big" gain that made it hard to retrofit to non-tow prep vehicles. Although the other day I saw something about some additional brackets for the tow hitch, in able to make the OEM hitch work, that the tow prep came with.

 

[RTexasF]

Forgot to mention that the fuse box to identify the ALT 140A fuse is under the hood. The factory hitch, if still available, had 3 to 4 times the mounting bolts than a standard aftermarket hitch (4 bolts). There was a dog bone shaped steel bracket on the vehicle that aided in mounting it. The factory hitch was (is?) ridiculously expensive also.

 

[supton]

Yeah, when I was looking yesterday I saw a pic of the extra brackets; I had seen that the OEM hitch was quite expensive.

I haven't started looking yet, it'd be a while before I look at any vehicles on a lot. Just putting information aside for if/when this occurs.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by supton
The hard part about towing is finding numbers. Last time I looked it seemed hard to find all three when looking at a vehicle--they'd give GVWR and GCWR but leave off curb. Annoying. I understand, they don't want to publish wrong numbers, not when any dealer installed item would trash it: but c'mon, a few pounds either way never hurt anyone. Especially not anyone who is going to look ahead and plan to not exceed 80% of GCWR.

Anyhow. I recall seeing a unibody or two that would allow max GVWR with max towing. It happens, certainly not for 1/2 ton trucks! I think minivans are often like that...

Anyhow, annoying case in point, Toyota's website does not list GCWR for the Highlander. Stupid! Does give curb at 4310 and GVWR at 5840. More google work finds a 9,900 GCWR (have to be careful, they have several different configurations). 5k trailer should have at least 500lb on the hitch, plus 4310 curb, is only 4810. But while payload isn't exceeded GCWR is about max. IMO, a conservative setup would be curb + 500lb people&stuff + 400lb hitch = 5200, that says 3,000 pound trailer for the typical family headed out on vacation. 3k would allow you get trinkets on the way, 4k would have you watching where you stash stuff. I don't see anything about wind load though, and travel trailers can have huge drag.

Simple math, really. Alter as necessary. If it's just you in the cab then max tow can probably be hit. Load up with people or cargo and what you can tow (usually) drops.

*

If I may tangent off, Toyota is screwed up on payload and towing. They state low payloads in general on their trucks, and don't like to advertise all three numbers. My truck originally was rated for 8,200 but with a paltry 1,240 payload. Fine, I keep that in account, figured 5k was a good limit for a half ton. Heck last time I towed I thought the passenger car tires squirmed a lot, and that was with my single axle trailer. Anyhow, the following year my truck dropped to 7,900, and then, without changing the drivetrain my model dropped to 6,500 with the new sheetmetal (that had a lower curb weight in the new model!). I'm left not sure what my truck is really rated for. Other than to steer far clear of it.


Most likely the reason for the drop in tow rating, with no apparent changes to the truck, was the adoption of the J2807 towing standards.

 

[supton]

J2807 was the cause for the first drop, I probably should have stated that. But many of us on the Tundra forums couldn't figure out the second drop when Gen 2.5 was introduced (Toyota might think of it as third gen but the rest of us didn't see a full generational change, not when the frame and drivetrain were the same).

 

[dareo]

Low payload is common on a lot of half tons. They push comfortable rides and unloaded performance and then upsell towing packages. You can have very wide ranges of towing and payload for the same year same model. This leads to average joe seeing commercials for the max tow spec and overloading his poorly equipped truck. Thankfully GM started posting all the towing info on the trucks around 2019 model year. No deep detective work to get payload and gcvwr.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by dareo
Low payload is common on a lot of half tons. They push comfortable rides and unloaded performance and then upsell towing packages. You can have very wide ranges of towing and payload for the same year same model. This leads to average joe seeing commercials for the max tow spec and overloading his poorly equipped truck. Thankfully GM started posting all the towing info on the trucks around 2019 model year. No deep detective work to get payload and gcvwr.



Exactly-most people who buy half-tons don't ask about payolad, rear axle capacity, rear end-gearing, or get necessarily the right motor.

I have a buddy-the guy made millions in aerospace-was ready to buy a half-ton (F-150) and lucky for him he called me. He was going to make a major mistake and get the wrong rear-end ratio. And this guy is pretty darn smart-but he wasn't aware of how important that is.

 

[oilpsi2high]

I'm old school in that I prefer tow vehicles that are body on frame.

Any new vehicle towing within it's limits isn't going to be "pushed around" by a trailer that's properly configured. I just spent a week with a Tacoma. There were even Tacoma owners who thought the truck was too small to tow a 20' boat - said to go with a full-size. I found this to be untrue - the truck handled it great, and I'm in the mountains with plenty of hills, blind curves, etc.

Buy what you'd be happy with owning. Life's too short to drive a car you don't like.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by dareo
Low payload is common on a lot of half tons. They push comfortable rides and unloaded performance and then upsell towing packages. You can have very wide ranges of towing and payload for the same year same model. This leads to average joe seeing commercials for the max tow spec and overloading his poorly equipped truck. Thankfully GM started posting all the towing info on the trucks around 2019 model year. No deep detective work to get payload and gcvwr.



Exactly-most people who buy half-tons don't ask about payolad, rear axle capacity, rear end-gearing, or get necessarily the right motor.

I have a buddy-the guy made millions in aerospace-was ready to buy a half-ton (F-150) and lucky for him he called me. He was going to make a major mistake and get the wrong rear-end ratio. And this guy is pretty darn smart-but he wasn't aware of how important that is.



3/4 tons also have a problem of low payload. Put the Diesel in them and most have quite low payloads unless you get the maximum towing package or whatever it's called. See it a lot in campgrounds. Family pulls in with the Diesel 3/4 ton supercrew with a huge 5th wheel. It's riding low and you just wonder how badly that is overloaded. Just like the 1/2 ton owner they think that because the commercial says "tows 30k" they are good to go. Or even the best one "the 3/4 ton is the same as the 1 ton just with a different label".

No matter what the vehicle people need to research into the specs and capabilities of what they are buying to make sure it fits. Most often it's as simple as picking the Max Tow or Max Trailering package and it will put the right engine, gears, and other stuff in there for you. But you still need to know what you are buying. Sadly most don't.

 

[dareo]

Some 3/4 tons have really high payloads. My previous truck, 2005 GMC 2500 CCSB 2wd 6.0 gasser was rated in the high 3000lb range.

However you can find the right Ram Cummins high trim 3/4 tons rated at only around 1500lbs.

 

[Soggydog]

We were looking at buying a Track loader for work. They planned to pull it with our 2012 Chevy k3500, drw, crew cab with the 6.0 gasser. I informed my supervisor that we did not have a trailer rated to tow it on. As I looked into how much the machine weighed I was shocked the dually shop truck was only rated to tow 8900 lbs equipped with the 3.73 gears. If it had the 4.11 gears it would be rated for 14000 lbs.
Oddly, my dad's 2012 K1500 6.2 liter crew cab with 3.42s was rated to pull more than the 1 ton.