0W oils; is the fear eligible ?

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hi !
in few european forums the 0w oils have very bad name, because people look on few parameters like : lowish hths, generally lower tbn, saps.

modern engines have quite different materials and tolerances. than what was available just 20-30 years ago.
in my country 10+ year old cars is not uncommon, therefore i think 0w would do some damage to those engines.

I like to hear your opinion, is a modern 0w oil, in modern cars really a scary thing ?
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0W oil is great. I flows much faster and thus avoids startup wear. It also needs less energy to start the motor.

I have used Mobil 1 European formula 0W 40 in all my vehicles for many years with no issue. This includes a Z3, an X1, a Town and Country and a Passat.
 
Unless it's about keeping the VVT hardware functioning optimally 0w-X are not really needed for the US market (Canada is a different story). The biggest misconception from oil enthusiasts is that they equate FE (0w-20/30) oils with high wear on their grocery/commuter-mobile. It's nonsense because none of the naysayers have paid to have an engine torn down to measure differences in wear and they instead rely on single-pass UOA's or whatever.

Now if the US had hwy speeds found on the German autobahn then ya, maybe.
 
In our country 10+ year old cars are pretty common. Average age is 11 last I knew.

We have some hot regions, cold regions, and regions that suffer from both temps. Bumper to bumper gridlock, and highways where people cruise at high speed for hours on end. For the most part, engines have soldiered on without issue, racking up high miles. At an average age 11 and typical 15kmile usage, that's over 260,000 km for the average car.

What might be different between here and there is that we do have longer trips in general (engines get up to temp) and don't run long OCI's (10k might be the new norm but many people are still doing at shorter intervals).
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Unless it's about keeping the VVT hardware functioning optimally 0w-X are not really needed for the US market (Canada is a different story).

The winter rating is completely irrelevant to VVT operation. The only time a 0W rated oil might be thinner is at extremely low temperature, such as -35F. And at that temperature any oil will be massively thick. Above that temperature there is no guarantee a 0W rated oil will be thinner.

So many misconceptions about the winter rating on this board and in this thread in particular.
 
Originally Posted by pep808


....10+ year old cars is not uncommon, therefore i think 0w would do some damage to those engines.


The W rating is the least important part, unless you live in an environment that asks for a lower winter rating. So if it meets the specs it will hardly do damage to the engine, it could not be the ideal oil for it, but doing damage is another story.
 
As an opinion with no scientific basis of facts, I can't ever see me using a 0W again. It's not scary. I just won't use it. I tried in 2 of my cars and just didn't like the start up ticking but that was 10 years ago. Never went back to try again.
 
This is all you need to know ... and you may have heard of one or two of these car brands ...

Porsche / VW / Mercedes don't think 0w is scary ...

[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
This is all you need to know ... and you may have heard of one or two of these car brands ...

Porsche / VW / Mercedes don't think 0w is scary ...

[Linked Image]


thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by pep808
i think 0w would do some damage to those engines.

Just remember that anyone may think anything they like, but it doesn't necessarily make it anywhere near the truth. Reality is not defined by imagination.
 
Originally Posted by pep808
people look on few parameters like : lowish hths, generally lower tbn, saps.

...

therefore i think 0w would do some damage to those engines.

First of all, not all 0W-XX oils have lowish HT/HS, lower TBN, low SAPS, etc. You can find 0W-XX oils that have HT/HS above 3.5cP, high TBN, full SAPS.

With that said, I don't necessarily see how this would lead one to conclude that "0w would do some damage."

If your engine calls for high HT/HS, full SAPS oil, then that's what you should be using, regardless if it's 0W-XX or not.
 
The Camrys are doing fine on 0w20 from STP . That's the spec . It gives me the whim whams using an oil that thin. I went from 20w50 in my old BMWs, I can't imagine using 0w20 in an M 20
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Unless it's about keeping the VVT hardware functioning optimally 0w-X are not really needed for the US market (Canada is a different story). The biggest misconception from oil enthusiasts is that they equate FE (0w-20/30) oils with high wear on their grocery/commuter-mobile. It's nonsense because none of the naysayers have paid to have an engine torn down to measure differences in wear and they instead rely on single-pass UOA's or whatever.

Now if the US had hwy speeds found on the German autobahn then ya, maybe.



Agreed.

And applause for your extreme transition lol.

My 2019 Lexus UX 250h specs 0W16.

Electronically controlled components, including the thermostat and the oil pump, are designed to more precisely determine the temperature of the engine.

At start up, this is so as to speed up the time it takes to assume operating temperature, ostensibly for cleaner emission numbers.

Then, these components, and other aspects of the design, keep the thin oil from getting too hot, even at WOT.

I have the further flexibility to drive easy, even hypermile, in ECO mode. With world class 41 % thermo efficiency, I am already discovering that good MPGs can happen without even trying.

On the other hand, I can use SPORT mode, w/paddle shifters, and an excellent CVT, and drive this bad boy like I stole it. Yes the RPMs rev up to 5 or 6k, but the engine does not sound at all strained.

HP. Torque. Efficiency. Top Tier 91 octane.

The one thing I will be sure to do is properly maintain the cooling system, using only genuine Toyota pink ULL coolant, in the engine and converter.

Why would I not use not just 0W, but 0W16 !?!

We all have eight months to come to grips with some truths about motor oil evolution.
Thinnish GF-6 oils will be tested to provide better wear protection than before. And GF-6B will not be backward compatible, but GF-6A will be.
 
Maybe for the typical European cars that spec 5w40 or 0w40 it is bad. For a Toyota that has spec 0w20 since mid 2000s, or 0w16 since variable flow oil pump becomes standard. This is a non issue.

Do typical European drives their car to 250k miles before junking or engine rebuild? If so how does 0w20 vs 5w40 work for them?
 
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It may be that these Euros are looking at the trees but not seeing the forest and many here are the same in their thinking.
We have many engines here for which 0W-20 is the recommended grade.
They run many miles on this grade without issues.
Prior to this, low HTHS 5W-20 and 5W-30 grades were the norm for decades here.
Guess what?
The engines did just fine on these fuel efficient oils.
Speed?
If the average German really wants to experience higher speeds for more than a few miles at a time and not in the dead of night, then they should visit West Texas or Montana. Plenty of wide open spaces with few interruptions.
 
a lot of untrue speculation when the SAME engines in europe spec 5-40 but 5-20 in USA, its ALL about the CAFE ratings used for the sale of cars in USA, + those expecting to do over 100 thou are best served by slightly heavier oils at running temps. note EVEN real synthetics using thinner base oils are prone to burn off + many direct injection engines can thin a 20W to dangerous levels. the minimal mpg's are wort little to those hoping to see 200 thou from their ride as was my 1.8T 2001 jetta with 275 hp + torque!!!
 
Originally Posted by fdcg27
It may be that these Euros are looking at the trees but not seeing the forest and many here are the same in their thinking.
We have many engines here for which 0W-20 is the recommended grade.
They run many miles on this grade without issues.
Prior to this, low HTHS 5W-20 and 5W-30 grades were the norm for decades here.
Guess what?
The engines did just fine on these fuel efficient oils.
Speed?
If the average German really wants to experience higher speeds for more than a few miles at a time and not in the dead of night, then they should visit West Texas or Montana. Plenty of wide open spaces with few interruptions.

Problem are third world country roads, not open space.
 
Originally Posted by pep808
hi !
in few european forums the 0w oils have very bad name, because people look on few parameters like : lowish hths, generally lower tbn, saps.

modern engines have quite different materials and tolerances. than what was available just 20-30 years ago.
in my country 10+ year old cars is not uncommon, therefore i think 0w would do some damage to those engines.

I like to hear your opinion, is a modern 0w oil, in modern cars really a scary thing ?
11.gif


They are not scared of 0W oils. They are scared of W20 oils or ILSAC GF-5 oils.
0W20 oils are used only for one reason: MPG.
People here will tell you that there is nothing to be concerned bcs. in the US 0W20 is common and 0W16 are coming.
First, average engine in the US is far more simple and with much bigger displacement than ones in Europe. In EU, 2.0ltr engines are already considered big, and 2.5ltr hair dryers that one can find here in Toyota or Subaru is something that is almost impossible to find in Europe except on the markets like Russian. Average European engine has small displacement and turbo. If they pack serious power, they are usually diesels with two turbos with two stages etc. Huge gasoline engines are rarity there for a long time.
Second, if you fallow threads here you will see also that people have bunch of issues here with smaller turbo engines (Asian and American made) that became common in certain vehicles. Those issues stem from various reasons, but some are related to oil choice by manufacturers.
So, I have Toyota, and I use one of those ILSAC GF-5 5W30 oils in it (it is specd. for 0W20). But in my VW, I strictly use ACEA A3/B3 B4, Castrol 0W40 or 0W30.
Now, in Toyota I have 3.5ltr V6 slow moving engine that is as dynamic as church bus. So yeah, it can make a lot of miles on 0W20 oil.
If you look at Toyota bestsellers in Europe, they have barely 1.6ltr, sometimes turbo (if diesel definiately turbo), and are specified for different oils. Besides being average in reliability department, because they are complex.
 
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