Why bother with 5w 10w etc when 0w exists?

[D1dad]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by jongies3
Even in a hot area, 0W will still flow faster on startup than the others, so it's beneficial everywhere in that aspect. Will it ever make a difference? Likely not, but since it gets well below zero here in Montana, I use it year round in my Tacoma.

No it won't. At warmer temperatures there is no guarantee a 0W-rated oil will be thinner than any other rated oil. It may well be thicker.

Besides, what does flow get you?

I guess I really know nothing about oil at 46 yrs old. I was under the impression that a 10w and 5w are the same oil during summer and only different below freezing. At least I hope so, because I've been using 10-30 in a 5-30 application during the summer. Now I fear I'm causing damage.

 

[Shannow]

No, Jongies3 keeps re-iterating the same falshoods about "W" ratings and their performance at temperatures far above their limits of pumpability.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by 69GTX
I want more viscosity protection at cold startup as long as the ambient temp allows the oil to flow....which in my region in dead of winter is a 10w. For anything above -10F......the 5w will easily flow. And above 0F the 10w will easily flow. A friend of mine in SoCal runs a 15w-30 concoction on his vehicles year round. It all flows. So it's all good. 0w will give you less protection at startup.

But you aren't getting "more viscosity protection" with the already massively thick oils at cold temperatures. 0W rated oil will not give you less protection at startup, plain and simple. That's not how it works.

0W rated oils will give somewhat easier starting at very low temperatures, as well as guaranteed flow to the pickup tube at those same extremely low temperatures. It will also perhaps give better fuel economy. But there is nothing there about protection, neither better nor worse. "Protection" comes at the other end of the grade designation, not from the winter rating.


My example was for SoCal only. It's almost never below 40-50 degrees when my friend starts his car....and most of the year usually 80-100 deg F. So he does have more startup viscosity protection with a 15w vs a 0w. I recall once looking at the viscosity charts for Mobil 1 0w-40 vs. 5w-30. And in the temperature range I typically started my car, the 5w was actually thinner.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by 69GTX
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by 69GTX
I want more viscosity protection at cold startup as long as the ambient temp allows the oil to flow....which in my region in dead of winter is a 10w. For anything above -10F......the 5w will easily flow. And above 0F the 10w will easily flow. A friend of mine in SoCal runs a 15w-30 concoction on his vehicles year round. It all flows. So it's all good. 0w will give you less protection at startup.

But you aren't getting "more viscosity protection" with the already massively thick oils at cold temperatures. 0W rated oil will not give you less protection at startup, plain and simple. That's not how it works.

0W rated oils will give somewhat easier starting at very low temperatures, as well as guaranteed flow to the pickup tube at those same extremely low temperatures. It will also perhaps give better fuel economy. But there is nothing there about protection, neither better nor worse. "Protection" comes at the other end of the grade designation, not from the winter rating.


My example was for SoCal only. It's almost never below 40-50 degrees when my friend starts his car....and most of the year usually 80-100 deg F. So he does have more startup viscosity protection with a 15w vs a 0w. I recall once looking at the viscosity charts for Mobil 1 0w-40 vs. 5w-30. And in the temperature range I typically started my car, the 5w was actually thinner.


I think you are missing the point. ALL oils are thicker when cold; well above operating viscosity. M1 0w-40 would be thicker than a GF-5 5w-30 at all temperatures one would reasonably encounter until one began to approach the CCS temperature of -30C for the 5w-30, at which point the 0w-40 would likely be thickening less as the temperature drops. That's what the 0W-xx designation indicates, that it can pass the limits for CCS and MRV at -35C and -40C respectively.

The composition of the lubricant; how it is additized, what approvals it meets, is what drives "startup protection" here when we are discussing oils of the same hot viscosity, which is irrespective of their winter rating. While typically oils with a narrower spread between the Winter rating and the hot visc have less VII polymers, that is not always the case, as the blender may have just used cheaper base oils and the same or more VII. AMSOIL makes a 10w-30 that has no VII polymers in it at all, a mostly PAO-based 0w-30 may have significantly less VII in it than a conventional 5w-30 or 10w-30.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by Shannow
No, Jongies3 keeps re-iterating the same falshoods about "W" ratings and their performance at temperatures far above their limits of pumpability.

+1.... just look at jongies's signature to see that even he doesn't believe that drivel. If 0W30 was so great and that's why he used it in his Taco, why wouldn't it be good enough for his other vehicles??

Originally Posted by jongies3
2004 Toyota Tacoma 3.4 V6: Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, FRAM PH3614 filter
2003 Buick Park Avenue Ultra S/C 3.8 V6: PYB 5W-30, FRAM PH3387 filter
2013 Honda 400EX ATV: Mobil 1 Racing 4t 10W-40, OEM filter

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Because sometimes they are not all on sale when you need some oil?

 

[FCD]

Originally Posted by Shannow
No, Jongies3 keeps re-iterating the same falshoods about "W" ratings and their performance at temperatures far above their limits of pumpability.

+1

 

[zfasts03]

I view it like this... All 30 weights: grade for winter peformance

0w-30 = "A" winter rating
5w-30 = "B" winter rating
10w-30 = "C" winter rating
staright 30 wt = "F" winter rating

15w-XX and 20w-XX a "D" winter rating

I'll take the oil with the "A", unless the car doesn't see cold temps.

 

[DGXR]

One of my engines (spec'd for 5w30) makes a lifter tick noise with 5w30 on "cold" mornings of 30*F. This immediately stopped with 10w30, which is perfectly suitable for 30F starting temperature. So I run 10w30 in an engine spec'd for 5w30. I may have achieved the same results with 5w40 but I chose 10w30 instead.
This example is in addition to the many valid reasons stated above. 0w is not always the best choice.

 

[zfasts03]

I am running Amsoil 0w-30 in my 2018 Toyota 4Runner. I'll post here when the engine is worn out.

Also running Amsoil 0w-20 in the `16 Chevy Suburban. I'll post here when the engine is worn out.

 

[D1dad]

I use 15-40 Dino in a 2000 f250 and it's started and not blown up at -5 not plugged in. It sure as [censored] didn't like it, but it started.

 

[Railrust]

I've always been told, when choosing between a 0w20 and a 5w20, always chose the 0w20 because it requires better base stocks to get the oil to a 0w20. And that's why all 0w20's are Synthetic, while you can find 5w20's that are not. Have no idea if that's true or not.

My truck calls for 0w20, but I'd like to know if using a 5w20 would really be any different? By reading the comments on here it sounds like I may be able to get a lower Noack with the 5w20...with direct injection, wouldn't that be beneficial?

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted by zfasts03
I view it like this... All 30 weights: grade for winter peformance

0w-30 = "A" winter rating
5w-30 = "B" winter rating
10w-30 = "C" winter rating
staright 30 wt = "F" winter rating

15w-XX and 20w-XX a "D" winter rating

I'll take the oil with the "A", unless the car doesn't see cold temps.


Conversely,

0w-30 = "D" summer rating
5w-30 = "C" summer rating
10w-30 = "B" summer rating
straight 30 wt = "A" summer rating

'll take the oil with the "A", unless the car doesn't see hot temps.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by zfasts03
I view it like this... All 30 weights: grade for winter peformance

0w-30 = "A" winter rating
5w-30 = "B" winter rating
10w-30 = "C" winter rating
staright 30 wt = "F" winter rating

15w-XX and 20w-XX a "D" winter rating

I'll take the oil with the "A", unless the car doesn't see cold temps.

I completely agree with this notion. I brought the same idea up a while ago that it should be like the tire ratings where you use a letter, or at least any thing other than a number. It causes nothing but continued confusion and misunderstanding when people think (for example) that a 0W-40 oil is "a 10 grade when cold and a 40 grade when hot."

Nothing is quite so misunderstood here on Bitog as winter ratings, and if that's the case it must be quite the circus out there in the wild.

 

[zfasts03]

Yep, API should change it to:

Aw-30
Bw-30
Cw-30
Dw-30
Fw-30

 

[ChrisD46]

Cross over point between 5W and 10W occurs at about 19 degrees F. Although 10W is good down to 0 degrees F. - below about 19 degrees F. past charts I have seen show 5W start to show faster start up protection , faster oil pressure rise , etc. My rule of thumb would be if I will see morning temps down in the teens then 5W 30 is a better option than 10W30 . Once April comes around then 10W30 is fine . *My preference though is for a D1/Gen 2 synthetic oil which 10W30 is not so 0W20 , 5W20 or 5W30 is what I would look at using year round .