Why bother with 5w 10w etc when 0w exists?

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by 69GTX
I want more viscosity protection at cold startup as long as the ambient temp allows the oil to flow....which in my region in dead of winter is a 10w. For anything above -10F......the 5w will easily flow. And above 0F the 10w will easily flow. A friend of mine in SoCal runs a 15w-30 concoction on his vehicles year round. It all flows. So it's all good. 0w will give you less protection at startup.

But you aren't getting "more viscosity protection" with the already massively thick oils at cold temperatures. 0W rated oil will not give you less protection at startup, plain and simple. That's not how it works.

0W rated oils will give somewhat easier starting at very low temperatures, as well as guaranteed flow to the pickup tube at those same extremely low temperatures. It will also perhaps give better fuel economy. But there is nothing there about protection, neither better nor worse. "Protection" comes at the other end of the grade designation, not from the winter rating.

 

[CT8]

I do once a year oil changes and a 0w-40 or a 0 or 5W-30 works all year for my climate. . Some winters are colder that others I don't worry because the the engines will out last my ownership of the vehicle unless something breaks and oil will not help breakage. Presently I have nothing that is high performance.

 

[OVERKILL]

- 0w-xx oils do not always have higher Noack volatility; in fact in many cases, if you are shopping against a conventional, it may be significantly lower due to the use of better bases.
- 0w-xx oils to not always have higher VII polymer content. This again depends on base oil selection. This ties into the above point. If you have a 5w-30 with 14% Noack, do you think it uses less or more VII than a 0w-30 with 8%?

In a perfect world, for example, M1 EP 5w-20 would have less VII and a lower Noack than the 0w-20 because they would use the same base oils. But of course that's not how those products appear to be blended, based on what we can roughly glean from the MSDS sheets. Mobil uses more PAO in the 0w-xx weights, and PAO is available in a wide range of viscosities, whilst the GTL slate presents a much narrower spread of base oil viscs, which can cause the reliance on more VII. Now, for products like Redline where the reliance on pretty much the same type of base oils and the same additive package is the case, you can see the expected behaviour, where their 5w-30 has a lower Noack than their 0w-30, but for oils blended to a price point, this appears to not be the method used.

Thus, I think it prudent to refrain from generalizations like I see expressed in this thread, because these are not universal truths. The reality is that "it depends" and if one believes those characteristics to be important, a bit of shopping around and looking at product data sheets and the PQIA data can at least point you in the right direction.

 

[BrianF]

Cost and is it really needed? People have survived quite some time out in this cold and hostile wasteland known as the prairies with 10w and 5w oils. Many people run 15w40 conventional in their diesel trucks all year and for some reason the engines haven't blown up.

 

[JLTD]

This,
Originally Posted by gfh77665
The least amount of spread between the two numbers is desirable. Also, "0's" are totally unnecessary in southern climates.


This,
Originally Posted by FlyNavyP3
Shear stability, lower NOACK, fewer VII are the first 3 reasons that come to mind.

Why would you run a multi-viscosity when a straight viscosity oil would suffice could also be asked. Convenience for varied seasons is usually the reason. But a good SAE 30 is still a great oil in a lot of climates, for a lot of the year.


And it's also been shown (or at least speculated, with data) that a higher "W" rating may result in lower timing chain wear.


OTOH, there are numerous members running 0w-xx year 'round with no issues.....

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by BrianF
Cost and is it really needed? People have survived quite some time out in this cold and hostile wasteland known as the prairies with 10w and 5w oils. Many people run 15w40 conventional in their diesel trucks all year and for some reason the engines haven't blown up.

But why? Does no one learn from history and take advantage of current technology?

When my old BMW was used by my daughter as an undergraduate up in northern Wisconsin, I was happy for 0W oils. Should I have instead told her how people back in the past got along with what was available to them in that day?

Or should I have told her that the Castrol 0W-40 was rumored to have a high Noack by some people on Bitog, and they also said it might shear in the M60 engine (it does have a double row timing chain) so I can't use it for that reason either?

 

[Mad_Hatter]

If you're consistently below -35 invest in a block/pan heater and put it on a timer switch. W/enuff tinkering i can dial in exactly how long to get 0 or 40c.

They're not that expensive.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
If you're consistently below -35 invest in a block/pan heater and put it on a timer switch.

They're not that expensive.

I agree. Starting any engine at -35F or below, regardless of which oil you're using is a dramatic event. Some places like my daughter's school didn't have plug-ins for the student lots although they did for the faculty.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
If you're consistently below -35 invest in a block/pan heater and put it on a timer switch.

They're not that expensive.

I agree. Starting any engine at -35F or below, regardless of which oil you're using is a dramatic event. Some places like my daughter's school didn't have plug-ins for the student lots although they did for the faculty.

Yeah and that's gonna be one of those cases where a heater prolly isn't a fit unless you also have a portable ac power supply. (I do because that's how I roll...‚). But she's a college kid so you just gotta make do. But if I were living somewhere north of the Arctic circle, I'm sure they all have block/pan heaters.

Below-35 is just not a practical concern for the vast majority of N. American vehicles.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

5w and 10w is listed as choice in my owner's manual. 0w is not.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by MONKEYMAN
5w and 10w is listed as choice in my owner's manual. 0w is not.

A 5w is going to pump up to the valve train in mere seconds. And unless I'm missing something, the 5w is going to provide you a thicker oil film during those critical seconds at startup when your AW addys are not able to do their job because engine temp is too low to activate them...so all you really have between movng parts at startup, is that oil film.

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted by krismoriah72
There are a few of us nutjobs that use oil in that isnt listed on the fill cap.. but there are lots of different fill caps...so there has to be many weights of oil on the shelves.

Any harm in 0w20 over 5w20? - How about any benefit?


I buy the 0W when it goes on clearance because it doesnt sell....because its not on many fill caps.





Getting more and more popular. 0w20 and now 0w16 is pretty common.

 

[jongies3]

Even in a hot area, 0W will still flow faster on startup than the others, so it's beneficial everywhere in that aspect. Will it ever make a difference? Likely not, but since it gets well below zero here in Montana, I use it year round in my Tacoma.

 

[ChrisD46]

Originally Posted by jayjr1105
I'm wondering what the point is buying 5w20 (instead of 0w20) or 10w30 when 0w30 is sitting on the shelf right next to it? Why bother with anything higher than 0w? Seems like the second number is the much more important one to follow for your engine. Any harm whatsoever using 0w20 over 5w20? Wouldn't it make sense for the oil manufacturer to just produce 0w only to save money?

*A number of Hyundai/Kia vehicles do not allow 0 anything (only 5W20, 5W30 or 10W30) ... That's reason enough for your warranty .

 

[Gebo]

I didn't like the rattle at start up when I used a 0w-30 in my cars many moons ago. But as you can see, I have older vehicles.

Have you tried switching oil viscosity grades in your vehicles? I can see in your sig viscosity grades you are using now. Maybe go up a viscosity grade and see if your engine sounds better? My son-in-law has a new 4Runner and he puts the 0W-20 in it
and I cringe every time I hear it idle. It reminds me of how the chalkboard fingernail scrape affects my nervous system. It makes we wanna sneak down while he's out and do a quickie oil change with a 5W-30 and see if it makes it idle any quieter. LOL

 

[bunnspecial]

In Kentucky, we usually have a few sub-zero days a year, and several more with single digit lows. Otherwise, we're fairly mild at least compared to up north and even in the winter it's unusual for us to have extended stretches with sub-freezing highs(we might get a week or two at a time, but even in January a low of 10-20º with a high in the mid-30s would be more typical).

I've honestly never found those kind of temperatures to tax a modern car with 5W-xx, especially synthetics. Even below zero, with 5W-20/30 the modern cars around here will usually crank a time or two and then fire right up.

As others have mentioned, I appreciate the better availability/selection and lower price of 5W oils. I also don't know that I'd be comfortable running a 0W in the middle of summer in a vehicle not specced for it. We see usually see a few days over 100º, and extended 90º stretches are common(including tomorrow, Oct. 1, with a record projected high of 94º).

The old, sloppy British stuff with their glorified tractor engines are a different story entirely. I once ran Castrol 5W-50 in the MG. Given that ~30º is pretty well my lower limit for driving the car(the top and really the rest of that car aren't particularly weather tight) I almost feel like 5W is too light for it at temperatures where I'd drive. I have run a 15W-40 in the winter before, but it will crank and start(the latter reluctantly, but probably more due to it being carbureted) with 20W-50 at any temperature where I will drive it.

 

[dlundblad]

My Kubota is approaching it's first oil change. 10w30, SAE 30 or 15w40 are my only options. I'd like to use 5w40, but I think I'll pass for warranty purposes.

According to a dealer tech online, 10w30 is the FF with my model so I'll likely use that until the warranty expires.

 

[RTexasF]

Why would I pay for a 0W30 synthetic when I use 5W30 Dino? I change oil & filter annually because I might accumulate 3000 miles during the year. City and highway driving is part of it so moisture/acids get burned off. Unlike many here I do not change my own oil and don't see an advantage to paying more for synthetic in this instance. Synthetic is a superior product I have no doubt but I'm not paying an additional $30 for it at my indy garage.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by jongies3
Even in a hot area, 0W will still flow faster on startup than the others, so it's beneficial everywhere in that aspect. Will it ever make a difference? Likely not, but since it gets well below zero here in Montana, I use it year round in my Tacoma.

No it won't. At warmer temperatures there is no guarantee a 0W-rated oil will be thinner than any other rated oil. It may well be thicker.

Besides, what does flow get you?

 

[Shannow]

kschachn, have had the same dance with the same person many many times...it's honestly a waste of effort.