Electric Vehicle Innovation

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Originally Posted by PimTac

How much electrical power is being generated outside of California for their use? I believe it's quite a bit. That should be considered.

I believe about 10% of our electricity is imported so that part is hard to measure. I have to believe it is not from renewables.
But here are the 2018 numbers:

CA Energy Sources 2018

We are moving towards renewables; the PGE grid infrastructure is a problem.
 
As someone who worked for a small dealership that sold lots of hybrids and electric vehicles I was thoroughly DISAPPOINTED with the Tesla. I drove a model s and rode in a model x. All i can say is they felt gimmicky, were overpriced and had no soul. They are an overpriced appliance. Plus i don't like supporting a company with a nutjob who runs his mouth.
 
I bet there are 100,000 posts on this board...

Complaining about Turbos
Complaining about Fuel Injection
Complaining about Direct Injection
Complaining about Ethanol in their gasoline
Complaining about CVTs
Complaining about 7 speed autos
Complaining about 8 speed autos
Complaining about 9 speed autos
Complaining about 10 speed autos
Complaining about Catalytic converters
Complaining about EGR systems
Complaining about SCR systems
Complaining about Variable valve timing
etc, etc, etc.

If only they made a simple car without any of these issues! ...‚
 
It is really doable here in Western Washington. Most places here have charging stations, including the base I work on. Target, Walmart, lots of other small places.

LOTS of electric cars here. I could easily replace the Malibu and Caprice with an electric as we go maybe 200 to 300 miles a week in each of those.
I would have the truck for long trips.

I just can't justify the cost for the return. Plus the Caprice and Malibu have been trouble free. I mean they are young. (I am approaching 60,000 miles in both of them).
 
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Originally Posted by ls1mike
It is really doable here in Western Washington. Most places here have charging stations, including the base I work on. Target, Walmart, lots of other small places.

LOTS of electric cars here. I could easily replace the Malibu and Caprice with an electric as we go maybe 200 to 300 miles a week in each of those.
I would have the truck for long trips.

I just can't justify the cost for the return. Plus the Caprice and Malibu have been trouble free. I mean they are young. (I am approaching 60,000 miles in both of them).




It is doable within a metro area. I know a couple with a Tesla. Running around metro Seattle is no problem. It does change when they go to Portland. Since they live in the north end of the city, charging is needed for the round trip.

How much do the charging stations charge?
 
We often jump in the pickup and take the 3 hour trip to our condo in Orange Beach. The pickup makes the round trip without stopping for fuel, and I can haul anything we need.

I think there may be one or two electric charging stations between here and Orange Beach. I'd have to stop at least once and wait for what-an hour or so assuming no one else is using it? 3-4 hours if there's a line of electric vehicles waiting for it since there aren't very many? No thanks-not how I'd want to waste my day.

There were a few folks that were stuck in traffic during the hurricane Michael evacuation who had electric vehicles and weren't able to fully charge them before heading north. There were a couple left out on the highway since there are no charging stations and apparently they didn't want their electric cars left behind. Even fully charged in 90 degree stop and go evac traffic I'm not sure if you could get from somewhere like Panama City to an evac center in Alabama.
 
Loved those Deutsche Post electric vans of 1953 in the article. German stylistic reserve and hefty feel in everything.
38% of automobiles in 1900 were electric...
 
I'm pretty sure electric vehicles will not go away. And I think with small incremental improvements, over time, EVs will finally be a viable transportation device. Maybe 10 years from now you'll go into a dealership of your favorite brand and it'll be "Gas or electric?". And if an EV suits your needs you buy it reaping the many benefits of EVs: charge at home, no ICE related maintenance etc.
Many will keep both a gas and EV to have their needs covered. But as EVs get better and better, comes the day "I let my gas car go, just wasn't using it enough....."
 
Natural Gas is a sleeping giant as well. With incremental improvements on various fronts makes the best economics proposition for the nearest hundred years. Instant torque of EV is undeniably incomparable though.
 
My commute to work is a whopping 6 miles. I have two cars in my family. I could easily drive an EV. But since I only put on 6000 miles a year, it would have to be very low cost as I drive used, 4-12 year old cars. Solve the cost issue and I am all over one....the other I would want ICE for longer trips. I suspect many if not most families could do the same.
 
Originally Posted by ls1mike
It is really doable here in Western Washington. Most places here have charging stations, including the base I work on. Target, Walmart, lots of other small places.

LOTS of electric cars here. I could easily replace the Malibu and Caprice with an electric as we go maybe 200 to 300 miles a week in each of those.
I would have the truck for long trips.

I just can't justify the cost for the return. Plus the Caprice and Malibu have been trouble free. I mean they are young. (I am approaching 60,000 miles in both of them).


If you barely drive, there is no sense in a PEV. PEV's really pay off when:

You have solar power
You drive a LOT

PEV's also really are lame...when you drive a lot.
 
Originally Posted by Y_K
Natural Gas is a sleeping giant as well. With incremental improvements on various fronts makes the best economics proposition for the nearest hundred years. Instant torque of EV is undeniably incomparable though.

CNG had its go. Noone really seemed "into" it. I saw a few trucks that ran it. A few public transits. Noone cares. PEV is what people want, and what people want is what always happens, whether it's good, or bad. PEV is the future whether it's the best or not.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by ls1mike
It is really doable here in Western Washington. Most places here have charging stations, including the base I work on. Target, Walmart, lots of other small places.

LOTS of electric cars here. I could easily replace the Malibu and Caprice with an electric as we go maybe 200 to 300 miles a week in each of those.
I would have the truck for long trips.

I just can't justify the cost for the return. Plus the Caprice and Malibu have been trouble free. I mean they are young. (I am approaching 60,000 miles in both of them).




It is doable within a metro area. I know a couple with a Tesla. Running around metro Seattle is no problem. It does change when they go to Portland. Since they live in the north end of the city, charging is needed for the round trip.

How much do the charging stations charge?

Over here? A few places are free.
 
Originally Posted by Rmay635703
sadly consumer tastes drive 2 tons of expensive batteries into the design.


I would disagree. We have a massive interstate highway system, regularly used by most Americans. Range is critical. The tow companies around here in south and central FL regularly get dead EV's to transport. That has nothing to do with "consumer taste" and everything to do with real limitations.


[Linked Image from images.hvtraffic.com]
 
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Originally Posted by double vanos
over time, EVs will finally be a viable transportation device. Maybe 10 years from now you'll go into a dealership of your favorite brand and it'll be "Gas or electric?".


The best projections is that 10 years from now, battery range will increase by 20%. They will still be expensive, and have limited range. Over the last 8 model years, Tesla increased range by 70 miles, by adding thousands of additional cells into the battery pack.
 
By the way, the concept of "free power" from solar panels is over blown. You have to take into account the cost of the system divided by 25 years of life. Also, when exactly does a person charge their EV with solar panels? The panels are productive during the day. Charging at night is not possible. Ok, if the car sits at home during weekends, you can charge it, or if the car is a 2nd car that mostly sits at home you can do it. Soooo, what is the charge rate in amps, how may amp hrs are required to fully charge the battery. Come back with the cost of that system. Divide by 25 years and that is your real cost. It's not free.
 
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
By the way, the concept of "free power" from solar panels is over blown. You have to take into account the cost of the system divided by 25 years of life. When exactly does a person charge their EV with solar panels? The panels are productive during the day. Charging at night is not possible. Ok, if the car sits at home during weekends, you can charge it, or if the car is a 2nd car that mostly sits at home you can do it. Soooo, what is the charge rate in amps, how may amp hrs are required to fully charge the battery. Come back with the cost of that system. Divide by 25 years and that is your real cost. It's not free.

Your point is well taken, but I would calculate it differently, at least in my case.
I did my solar project before I decided to get the Tesla.
I bought more capacity because I wanted to use the AC more and thought about an EV and just did not want to be sorry if I paid all that $$ and still had to pay PGE.
Yes, the sun does not shine at night.
But I send PGE more than I use, so my bill is $15 per month to be on the grid.
My break even point was like 6 to 7 years. Then electricity is "free". The panels are guaranteed for 25 years.
Charging the Model 3 instead of procuring gasoline only shortens that time.

Now high CA gasoline and electricity prices make solar in CA a no-brainer, while other locals have far different variables, to be sure.
 
The PHEV is vastly superior and will be even as new innovations come along in battery and converter tech. You will not beat the energy density of liquid fuels anytime soon, the matter of pollution is always swept under the rug with eV energy sources, and PHEVs get you the best of both worlds while minimizing the worst of each. Engines can be run at peak efficiency most of the time, battery quantity ca be limited, etc.
 
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