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Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question #5221067 09/24/19 06:43 AM
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babyivan Offline OP
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I recently put 2 liters of fresh Ravenol MTF-2 fluid into my 2017 Ford Fiesta ST, 6 speed manual trans (Getrag B6), which specs WSS-M2C200-D2. In the US, Ford uses their DCTF, overseas they use an LV MTF (most likely rebranded Castrol Syntrans FE 75w).
I know that the DCTF is basically an MTF with an AW package, so I'm not looking to compare what I used vs stock; even though I know the Ravenol MTF-2 is slightly higher viscosity (6.1 cst @100c vs 7.x cst @100c, according to the white paper threads).

I happened to look at the spec sheet that Ravenol posts and it mentions, "API GL-4, MT-1". The MT-1 part is what boggles my mind. When I looked it up, it says it's for heavy duty truck transmissions, but the GL-4, I thought, is specifically NOT for heavy duty use. Then when I google, "GL-4 and MT-1" together, I found nothing that links those two together. However, I did find a lot of links for "GL-5 and MT-1", which makes sense if it's for heavy duty use.

Perhaps I'm mistaking their use of "MT-1", idk.... If anyone can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated. THANKS!

Pic below from their spec sheet (if it uploaded correctly)

aviary-image-1569325839392.jpeg
Last edited by babyivan; 09/24/19 06:44 AM.

17 Fiesta ST w/Recaros
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: babyivan] #5221080 09/24/19 07:07 AM
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d00df00d Offline
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Interesting question.

I think "heavy duty" can mean a lot of things, so it may be that the specific requirements of the MT-1 and GL-5 specs don't entirely overlap.

I also wonder if this oil actually would meet GL-5 requirements but they don't want to scare anyone off using it in a GL-4 application.

Hopefully someone better informed can chime in.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: d00df00d] #5221107 09/24/19 07:57 AM
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babyivan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by d00df00d
Interesting question.

I think "heavy duty" can mean a lot of things, so it may be that the specific requirements of the MT-1 and GL-5 specs don't entirely overlap.

I also wonder if this oil actually would meet GL-5 requirements but they don't want to scare anyone off using it in a GL-4 application.

Hopefully someone better informed can chime in.

Hi, thanks for the input. I hope that it's not a GL-5 in disguise, I would hate to risk damaging anything soft inside.
I will note that the copper test they performed came out as '1a', so that must mean whatever it is, shouldn't harm anything.


17 Fiesta ST w/Recaros
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: babyivan] #5221121 09/24/19 08:18 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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Are you questioning BC the car does not shift well after the Ravenol install?

I do somewhat uderstand your concern, but GL-4 are rare and its head to get the service cats on them.

I would think in this instance with the Ravenol - as a COMBINED spec - It may meet MT-1 for HD non synchromesh transmissions but not HD Hypoid spec that the GL-5 would meet.

So , How does it shift with this new gear oil? But be sure to give it a little time to changeover the EP.

Schooling for all

Below is a professional additive package manufacturer's presentation on gear lubes (PDF)

Start on page 10 if you want to skip ahead to the point of discussion.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/media/1821/10-gear-lubricants-na.pdf



Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 09/24/19 08:33 AM.

2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#1 5885mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#7 52665mi-Castrol GTX Magnatec 5W20 + SOA Filter
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: babyivan] #5221178 09/24/19 09:30 AM
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Bailes1992 Offline
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The Castrol 75w90 I use has both GL-4 and GL-5 specifications. I don't believe a reputable oil manufacturer would put GL-4 on a label if there was a chance it could cause damage.


19 Volvo V40 D3 Auto - 96 Defender 300TDi - 03 Ford Mondeo ST 3.0 V6
Engine - Castrol Edge 5w30 LL
Manual - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
ATF - Comma MVATF
Diff & Transfer - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5221403 09/24/19 01:32 PM
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babyivan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Are you questioning BC the car does not shift well after the Ravenol install?

I do somewhat uderstand your concern, but GL-4 are rare and its head to get the service cats on them.

I would think in this instance with the Ravenol - as a COMBINED spec - It may meet MT-1 for HD non synchromesh transmissions but not HD Hypoid spec that the GL-5 would meet.

So , How does it shift with this new gear oil? But be sure to give it a little time to changeover the EP.

Schooling for all

Below is a professional additive package manufacturer's presentation on gear lubes (PDF)

Start on page 10 if you want to skip ahead to the point of discussion.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/media/1821/10-gear-lubricants-na.pdf


Thanks for the reply.
Nope, no issues, just the wheels in my head turning.

I guess ravenol 2 is more of an all in one oil meant to satisfy a multitude of various specs.
The ravenol 3 is more specific, but I did want something a tad more viscous. And maybe it's in my head, but the drivetrain does sound quieter, and shifting is a touch smoother on it as compared to the OEM stuff.


17 Fiesta ST w/Recaros
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: babyivan] #5221488 09/24/19 03:30 PM
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dailydriver Offline
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I've always thought that an actual GL-5 fluid MUST contain (possibly corrosive to some gearbox materials?) EP additives, whereas those are verboten in GL-4s, correct, or not?? shrug


2016 Ford Fiesta ST 17K miles
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Fram XG3600 filter
Ravenol MTF-2 in the IB6 transaxle
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: dailydriver] #5221492 09/24/19 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
I've always thought that an actual GL-5 fluid MUST contain (possibly corrosive to some gearbox materials?) EP additives, whereas those are verboten in GL-4s, correct, or not?? shrug


I was also under this impression as well. Where is MolaKule?

The critical aspect is that with soft yellow metals like bronze in the synchronize rings those high pressure EP additives STRIP the bronze plating off of the gears over time and dramatically shorten their service life.

Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: babyivan] #5221511 09/24/19 03:55 PM
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"Dr. Larry Fleinhardt:
You know that it's considered unsolvable?
Charlie Eppes:
Well, certainly people who have failed to solve it might think that." From NUMB3RS
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: dailydriver] #5221695 09/24/19 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
I've always thought that an actual GL-5 fluid MUST contain (possibly corrosive to some gearbox materials?) EP additives, whereas those are verboten in GL-4s, correct, or not?? shrug
Maybe laugh
Look out for VOAs/UOAs of Castrol V FE 75W-80. Its for VAG 5/6 gear MTs. GL-4+ (or "GL-4/GL-5") for MTs with front-wheel diffs build in. Nothing new. You get GL-4+ from a lots of manufacturers in the EU.

But his addpack chemical mace is bigger (??) than in some good GL-5 oils. And VAG have yellow metals in a MTs. I don't know accurate, but I mean D130 of V FE is 2c or something eek 1b would be for those MTs (?) Or max. how much?
And they maintains its for G 052 171 or G 052 532. Madness crazy

@babyivan
If you on Ravenol... For you own individual switch perfectness (lol) you can mix Ravenol MTF-3 (GL-4/GL-5) and VSG (75W-90, GL-4/GL-5). Both are GL-4/GL-5, mean, for all no-syncromesh gears like yours, with front-wheel drive diffs inside. And all is fine with D130.

Starting with 70:30 and bigger syringe with littlebit hose at it. Later for more protection in the heat, suck away from 80:20 a amount and put more VSG. For more switchness, put more MTF-3. Your choice wink2

We drive it in 6 cars up 65:35 in track cars to 80:20 in dailys in alpine countrys. My wife drive it, very pleased, in 75:25 in their daily. Summer, Winter, highway, city. Best.
But if YOU final happy with MTF-2, let it be, of course.

p.s.:
Before, we tasted and testet LOTS of oils and oil mixes. [censored]...

Last edited by Lowflyer; 09/24/19 08:18 PM.
Re: Ravenol MTF-2 Puzzling Spec Question [Re: babyivan] #5222158 09/25/19 11:08 AM
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gamefoo21 Offline
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Ohhh... so MT-1 is a spec the only deals with non-syncronized transmissions, it's above and beyond GL-5. It adds in things to deal with thermal degradation, component wear, and oil seal damage. MT-1 it seems requires the oil to meet at least GL-5 specification.

Hmm... so for a synchronized gear box, MT-1 isn't bad, but it's definitely not the only specification you want, as it won't have the FMs that are desperately needed by the syncho rings in many transmissions.

My derpy reading:


GL-4 for things with spiral bevel gears and the required AW/EP additives and often manual transmissions and transaxles. It doesn't play nice with MT-1.

GL-5 for things with hypoid gears and the required AW/EP additives

MT-1 is for gear crashing manuals and requires GL-5 spec oil as a base.

Last edited by gamefoo21; 09/25/19 11:09 AM.
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